The Beslan School Memorial
Tuesday, September 14, 2004
  School seized in Russia. gazeta.ru:
Chechen terrorists (male and female) have seized school #1 in Beslan, North Osetia.They are holding 600 students, parents and teachers. They demand the release of 27 terrorists who were recently arrested ina raid in Ingushetia. Terrorists have mined the area around the school, and reportedly the female terrorists are wearing suicide belts. Terrorists have announced, via a loudspeaker, that they will kill 20 students for each terrorist killed by the police. They have also made the students stand in order to prevent the police from shooting at the windows.About the school. School #1 has a capacity of 895 studentsand 59 teachers.I will keep updating from various russian wires every 5-15 minutes.
UPDATES
gazeta.ru
The republic of Osetia has ordered all schools closed. By the way, september 1st is the first day of the school year in Russia.
Zakaev has denied that Maskhadov is responsible for this act.
An explosion was heard inside the school (about 2 hours ago).
kp.ru is quoting North Osetia's minister of interior as saying that there are 300-400 hostages.
newsru.com:
There seems to be a fire somewhere inside the school. Several single gun shots and a shot from a grenade launcher was heard a few minutes prior. Terrorists have also shot from grenade launcher at an armoured personnel carrier. Nobody inside was wounded.
Somewhat related news - airline KrasAir flight flying from Sherm el Sheikh, Egypt to Moscow has been delayed for 2 hours, after the crew and passengers refused to fly out, when the Egyptians put two Chechen women on the plane at the last minute. The crew claimed that the women acted suspiciously and locked themselves in the bathroom as soon as they entered the plane.
The women were forced to leave the plane.
newsru.com
Details... ~50 children managed to escape at the time of seizure. 11 students and 4 adults hid in the boiler room (from where they were safely led out by the police). Later on, 2 girls managed to escape. They report that the terrorists are acting very aggresively and are scaring the children. One of the terrorists is wounded. The hostages are being kept in the school's gymnasium. The number of hostages mentioned here is 500+. Terrorists have mined the area around the school. There are about 25 terrorists, 4 of them are women with bomb belts, and they also have 2 dogs.
voina.ru
Ok, this is scary, but voina.ru is reporting that all nuclear installations in Russia are now being re enforced with troops. No more specifics are given.
lenta.ru
FSB has established contact and is negotiating with the terrorists. The negotations are "tough".
voina.ruSuicide bomber that brought down one of the russian planes last week and yesterday's suicide bomber in Moscow are sisters????
gazeta.ru
Authorities are ready to provide food and water for the hostages if the terrorists allow it.
kp.ru
Moscow is requesting an emergency meeting of the Security Council.
kp.ru
21 year old Kazik brought his sister to school. He tells the journalist what he witnessed.
Around 9 am, an old truck pulled up and about 20 heavily armed terrorists dressed in black and wear black masks and 4 women with bomb belts came out.Children started to run. Those who were standing closest to the street were able to make it out. Terorrists starting pushing others towards the building, and throwing some children through windows (inside the building)(!!!).
And elderly woman was shot, and a girl who looked like an 11th grader was shot in the back. She died on the spot.
Kazik's sister is still a hostage.
Soldiers are saying that terorrists are getting bold. They are looking outside the windows, laughing, and seems like they are speaking arabic amongst themselves. They are also yelling in Russian for the authorities to release terorrists who were recently arrested in Ingushetia.
Sidenote: North Osetians are not ethnically russian, but are mountain people like the Chechens. They are, however, mostly Christian Orthodox.
gazeta.ru
#1 - main building#2 - main entrance#3 - court yard (where it all began)#4 - gym (where the hostages are kept)#5 - facade#6 - emergency exit#7 - boiler room #8 - sport complex#9 - stadium
Among the dead is Ruslan Fraev - brother of Soslan Fraev who was an European wrestling champion in 1994
gazeta.ru
Correspondent from RTR is saying that children are treated well, they are allowed to use the bathroom and are given drinking water.Children are being kept separate from the adult hostages, however.
utro.ru
Inconsistent information is coming out. FSB are talking with terrorists. One source is saying that FSB came in contact with them after they got the phone # on a piece of paper, others say that FSB gave the terrorists 2 radios. Officials are trying to estimate the number of hostages. Some are saying 120-300.
NY Times:
The man who answered the phone at the school said he represented the Second Group of Salakhin Riadus Shakhidi, a rebel contingent believed to be headed by Chechnya's most notorious rebel commander, Shamil Basayev.
rian.ru
The principal of the school and some teachers are in need of diabetes medicine.
The terrorists are still not accepting food and supplies for the hostages.
utro.ru
Apparently the terrorists are not allowing food/medication to be brought in for fear of them containing psychotropic drugs.
rbc.ru
I've reported before that the terrorists mined the area around the school, but rbc.ru is now saying that the gym, where the terorrists are holding the hostages, is rigged with explosives as well.
newsru.com
newsru.com reminds us that on June 17th, Basayev has threatened Russia with new terorrist acts. He even mentioned Salakhin Riadus Shakhidi, the group that has taken the responspibility for today's hostage taking, by name.
According to utro.ru is reporting that Salakhin Riadus Shakhidi was added to the US State Department's terrorist list on February 28, 2003.
utro.ru is promising an update, from their man on the ground in Beslan, shortly.
gazeta.ru
FSB finally weighs in on the number of hostages. FSB is stating that the preliminary number is around 300.
Shots have been heard around the school. Automatic fire as well as single shots.
lenta.ru
Plot thickens... Basayev puts out a statement on a chechen website. He's denying any responsibility. Unforunately, lenta.ru does not mention which website.
Kavkaz.org got shut down,a while back, so I thought they were down for good. Apparently they are now being hosted in UK - their russian language site (www.kavkaz.org.uk/russ/) has a link to an "official statement". They are denying everything, claiming that russians have killed over 42,000 chechen children over the years, but still denying any responsibility and denouncing terrorism all together. They say that the blame rests with Putin.
There's also an english language site (http://www.kavkaz.org.uk/eng/), but it hasn't been updated with today's news, as of yet.
ntv.ru
Ok, about the shots heard.. There was a heavy rain (which even caused some problems with the satellite equipment of the tv reporters on the scene). It's possible that the rain has affected power lines going to school and the terrorists thought the soldiers were about to storm in. The shots lasted for about three minutes and then stopped.
There's a team of psychologists on the scene trying to calm down the parents of the hostages.
utro.ru
Somewhat related news. The kuwaiti company, whose truckers were freed today, said that they have paid $500k for their release. Way to encourage the terrorists!
http://www.kommersant.ru/doc.html?docId=502387 has a lot of information:
According to an eye witness account, some people who initially escaped were hiding behind the fence and were trying to ask the terrorists what was going to happen to their children. The terrorists did not shoot but were saying "Russians, russians, don't be scared, come here". Allegedly, one even tried to lure one of the escaped students with a chocolate.
kommersant.ru is saying that, possibly, the terrorists brought dogs as gas detectors (animals react to gas faster then humans), in case the police tries to gas them as was the case in the siege of the theater in Moscow.
According to the witnesses, after forcing the hostages into the building, the terrorists then began to unload big boxes from their truck (probably explosives).
First cops on the scene had to face rifle, machine and grenade fire from windows and the roof. Police did not shoot back since the terrorists put children in the windows as live shields.
A local imam and a christian orthodox priest volunteered to go to the school, but were met with fire when they approached the building.
The police then walked to the building, arms raised, with 2 motorolla radios and put them down on the steps in front of the closed door. After they walked away, the door opened and one of the terorrists, an assault rifle in one hand, a child in the other (as a live shield), retrieved them.
Osetian (civilian) man with his rifle.
gazeta.ru
The Mufti of Chechnya has some strong words for these terroristis. In his denounciation of their act he refers to them as "terrorist-criminals" who have "once again shown their beastly face". He stated that these "terrorist-criminals" are people without a religion and definately are not muslim. Those who know Islam would not use the word together with "terrorism" in the same sentence, he said, because "Islam is a great religion, which calls onto its followers to commit good to others people and nations".
"Muslims of Chechnya are ready to do whatever is necessary to help free the hostages", he underlined.
Basayev's official website is doing some serious PR. www.kavkaz.org.uk/russ/ they have just posted two articles (in russian) about Russia's alleged murder of 42,000 chechen children (a gruesome photo of dead kids is accompanying the text). The second article is titled "You Reap What You Sow".
Their english language site has finally posted an article regarding the siege.
They also claim to have been DOS attacked by FSB hackers, today. Whatever.
Apparently, they are using their website to communicate with terorrists world wide. I've just clicked on the "chat" item in the side menu and their java chat applet told me that my IP is not authorized.
They have videos of ambushes and "military operations" here.
rbc.ru
Terrorists have finally agreed to allow food and water to be brought in for the hostages.
It has been around 21 hours since the school was seized. Kids must be hungry.
gazeta.ru
There are 315-320 being held hostage, according to the latest and most accurate estimates.
About 1,500 relatives of the hostages have been housed in a nearby community center. Some of them are getting medical and psychological help. Hot meals are being served.
The list of hostages will be made public in abou 2-3 hours.
There has not been any contact with the terorrists in the past few hours.
Russia's leading Rabbi, Adolf Shaevich, has denounced the terrorist act and has stated that "Only by united efforts can the civilized world succeed in stamping out this evil".
utro.ru
It is now being estimated that there are 35-40 terrorists inside the school. Also, as of now, there are 12 dead hostages all together.
Russian intelligence has the names of the terrorists.
Shots from automatic rifles have been heard in the past hour. Also 2 explosions.
utro.ru
Terrorists are demanding to speak to the President of Northern Osettia, they will not negotiate with anybody else. Also, this group of terrorists is multinational - consists of chechens, ingushi, osetians and russians.
Authorities have offered a safe passage to Ingutetia or Chechnya and also to trade adults for children. So far, the terorrists have turned down all offers.
newsru.com
The number of hostages stated by this source is 364.
Also, a very alarming development. According to witnesses, terrorists have taken off their masks, which might mean that they are not planning on making a getaway...
Good morning. Back to updates.
utro.ru
Relatives of the hostages are sceptic regarding the official number of hostages held - 354. According to them, there are 1154 on the school roster. Also, most students were accompanied by their families (September 1st is the first day of the russian school year).
utro.ru
Head of Al Jazeera's office in Moscow is denying earlier rumours that his channel will act as a mediator.
http://www.utro.ru/news/2004/09/02/346571.shtml
Putin said that he'll do everything possible to save the hostages.
utro.ru
Less then an hour ago: there were three explosions that were heard coming from inside the school perimeter.
utro.ru
There are three Turkish citizens among the hostages - Annetta Gadiava and her 2 daughters (8 year old Adana and a 1 year old Milena).
utro.ru
According to a teacher (Aslan Kadzoev), who managed to escapee during the night -the terrorists picked 15 of the most strongest looking men to the floor above the gym and shot them. Russian officials are not confirming nor denying yet.
Caucaus Times
Another source quoting the escaped teacher, Aslan Kadzoev, claiming that 15 adult, male hostages were shot dead by the terrorists. He claims that this took place at 11 AM. Aslan told the reporters that he was led to the room with the bodies and told to throw the corpses out the window. After throwing 14 of the 15 bodies outside, Aslan realized that he might be next. He jumped from the second floor window and ran.
utro.ru
26 hostages have been released.
utro.ruRussian experts believe that the terrorists are stalling for time and waiting for orders from the "top".
utro.ru
FSB spokesman promised that FSB will not attempt to storm the school.
FSB is looking for these two chechen women who are suspected of "ties with terrorists".
Maybe they are the next ones to blow themselves up?
utro.ru
A car blew up in the neighborhood of the seized school. There are no casualties. Authorities are investigating.
kp.ru
Released hostages are being debriefed.
utro.ru
Former President of Ingushetia, Ruslan Aushev, was instrumental in securing the release of the 26 hostages.
kp.ru
School's principal has contaced the authorities and said that all the children in side are alive, there's no panic and the kids are obedient.
Terrorists are still not accepting food and supplies for the hostages.
utro.ru posted a list of the 25 (out of 26) released hostages. Its in russian, but check it out anyway. Next to the names, they publish the person's year of birth. A lot of the released were born in 2002 and 2003, and 2 were born in 2004!
One of the released hostages.
Soldier carrying a released hostage.
gazeta.ru(hat tip Olka)
A group of the hostages' relatives has recorded a statement that addresses the world's muslim community. It's to be played on Al Jazeera and Al Arabia and says that the terrorists' methods are not a solution to anything, but a sin.
newsru.com
Terrorists are still not allowing any food/water to be brought in, but it was reported that the children were fed with supplies from the school's cafeteria. Those food supplies were depleted a few hours ago, however.
utro.ru
Shots heard.
Russian special forces (spetsnaz) soldier with a released hostage.
utro.ru
Dr.Rochal (sp?), who has been negotiating with the terrorists, expressed his dissatisfaction with the absence of any representatives of the Red Cross.
gazeta.ru
President of Osetia, Alexander Dzasohov, said that the terrorists were offered the freedom of 50 of their cohorts who were seized back in June. A deal was almost made, but at the last moment the terrorists backed down.
Seems like they really have no demands. This is bad. They must be getting orders from the outside.
For some reason, moveabletype renamed the filename of this entry, so the old links went to an old copy which was not being updated...
Change your links to point to the current url, please.
And keep checking, I am still updating.
gazeta.ru
Armenian officials confirm that there are 5 Armenian citizens who are held hostage inside the school. Four students (one of them is a first grader) and a parent.
gazeta.ru
Two of the earlier freed hostages are the Turkish citizens that I've mentioned before. Anneta Gadieva and one of her daughters. Another daughter is still inside.
gazeta.ru
There are two citizens of Georgia amongst the hostages. A woman and her seven year old son.
For those of you who can't read cyrillic, Dr. Rusty Shackleford has transliterated the list of the 26 released hostages.
I am still on top of this, but there's nothing on the wires to post.
Terrorists have not issued any demands, FSB is not going to move in with so many kids inside, so no new info yet.
I have a gut feelings that its not going to end well. It's just too quiet.
kp.ru
According to russian intelligence, Chechen terrorists receive up to $100 million dollars a year from their foreign financiers.
According to the article, the three terrorists who downed a large russian millitary helicopter in 2002 (~100 dead) receievd $50k each. Relatives of a suicide bomber who blew herself up during a rock concert received $70k, and relatives of a suicide bomber who attempted to blow herself up in the center of Moscow (but was subdued and arrested) were supposed to receive $30k. The relatives of the women who blew up the planes, and the woman who blew herself by a metro station will probably get a similar payment as well.
kp.ru
26 hostages were freed, but there are only 25 names on the list. It's being said that one of the women hostages, who came out with a child (who was not hers) in her arms, went back in, because she has three of her own children inside.
newsru.com (hat tip Olka)
Two explosions. Apparently, the terrorists fired two grenades.
utro.ru
Released hostages are saying that there are Osetians amongst the terrorists. They also identified one of the terrorists - Nikolai Hodov. Hodov was already on FSB's terrorist list and was blamed for the bomb that exploded in Vladivakavkaz in February of this year. Several people were killed in that explosion.
utro.ru
About the shots fired a shot while back. Terrorists told the authorities that they thought they saw movement.
Are they getting paranoid?
ntv.ru
Small correction. The woman who came back to the school carried out her own child (not someone else's as was reported prior). She went back to stay with her remaining children.
lenta.ru
gzt.ru quotes one of the released hostages as saying that there are over 1,000+ hostages inside, not ~350 as officials claim.
http://newsru.com/russia/03sep2004/morning.html
Terrorists have broke off all contact at 1:30 am (moscow time, or 5:45 ET)
Friday
utro.ru
6:20 AM (moscow time) automatic was heard, a minute after - two explosions
There are not 354 hostages, as was reported before, but 354 families!This is according to the released hostages.
Terrorists are still refusing food, water and other supplies for the hostages.
One of the freed hostages, Zalina Dzandorva told the following:
There were a lot of wounded right away, those who could not walk on their ownwere finished off. All the men who tried to resist were killed (around 20). Some woundedwere taken out from the gym and shot in the hallway.
Initially, the terorrists allowed (tap) water to be distributed among the hostages,but then frustrated with the leaders of Ingushetia and North Osetia not meeting them, they would not even give water to children.
The Zalina Dzandorva is also saying that 2 of the women with suicide belts blew themselves up in the hallway where men were being held....
Gun shots and grenade launchers were being fired 40 minutes ago. There's someinformation that one of the gunmen is a notorious terorrist. Possibly Doka Umarov, but right now he is asked to be called "Goretz".
kommersant.ru has more with Zalina Dzandorova (one of the free hostages). She's saying there are up to 1,500 hostages inside the schools. Hostages are, basically, one on top of the other in the gym. Windows had to be knocked out to allow more air in.
There are about 30 male terrorists. There were, also, 2 female terrorists with suicide belts, but they blew themselves upin the school's hallway, which held some of the male hostages. After their exploded, the male terrorists said that their "sisters" were "victiorious".
Terrorists are not taking off their masks, but claim to be chechen. They told the hostages that they want russian troops out of Chechnya, and also that their children were killed by russians and they have nothing to loose.
Details coming up shortly, but:
gazeta.ru
150 are dead (minimum)
This is going to be a bit disorganized, but a lot of things happened and I am not quite sure where to start... But here's the latest:
Vladivakavkaz' Clinical hospital has sent all the patients who are able to walk home, to make roomfor the wounded from Beslan.
Military hospitals in Moscow are ready to accept the wounded from Beslan.
All the hostages have been evacuated from the gym and army sapers are in the process of removing explosives from that area.
Special forces are attacking the building where terrorists have escaped to.tanks are being used.
Several terrorists have been captured.
There are at least 200 wounded.
One of the terrorists has been severely beaten/possibly killed by an angry mob.
344 persons are hospitalized.
lenta.ru
ex hostages are saying that terrorists began killing hostages before the storm.
lenta.ru
lenta.ru is quoting a CNN corresponding as saying that there are at least 100 dead bodies inside the gym.
also, ITV's (brittish channel) correspondent is saying that the gym is completely destroyed.
lenta.ru
When the storm began, the terrorists divided into 3 groups.First group stayed inside the school, second group tried to escape, and third tried to blend in with the hostages.
One of the hostages said that a female suicide bomber blew herself up when the shoot out began.
Head of the North Osetian parliament asked the civilian population to organize itself into groups and patrol the town looking for the escaping terrorists.
lenta.ru
Escaping terrorists have hostages with them.
gazeta.ru
A female terrorist was caught. She changed into a white garb and tried to enter a hospital,but due to the heavy police presence turned around and headed to the HQ where she was apprehended.
gazeta.ruThere are 500 wounded in hospitals all together. Many have concussions and gunshot wounds.Most of the children have little close on,and women are barefoot.
Doctors are afraid that some of the wounded might be terrorists.
Officials are saying that as the storm took place there were 150 EMT crews on hand.
There are 50 ambulances working in Beslan right now. Private cars are helping out with transporting.
The unofficial number of dead is 150. Officials are not confirming, yet.
Red Cross is helping out.
ARMED GANG!?!?!?!?!?!?
Look at the caption! They can't even call them terrorists!
BBC is a little behind on the info, russian sources say 10 of the terrorists are dead. Maybe the screen captures are not current.
utro.ru
13 terrorists made it outside the school perimeter.
gazeta.ru
Some of the terrorists possibly made it outside the city. Some are still holed up in one of the school's buildings. It's possible that they were covering the escape of their cohorts. Another group made it outside the school perimeter and is holed up in a residential building. There's information that they might have some adult hostages.
Authorities believe that the terror leaders have tried to blend in with the hostages. They think that the group was lead by Magomed "Magas" Evloev. Basayev's personal bodyguard might have been involved as well.
gazeta.ru
Three of the terrorists are blocked in the basement.There's unconfirmed info that one of them is the leader of the whole group.
utro.ru
One terrorist was caught and beaten (by some accounts - to death).
Its not clear at this point if this is a separate case or the same:
Civilians took one wounded person off thestretcher, because he was wearing a military type glove and thus suspected of being a terrorist. The mob set on him and his fate is not known.
Also, civilians grabbed two terrorists as they were running out from the school. Their fate is not known either.
Officials confirmed only one case of lynching.
utro.ru
One of the three groups of the terrorists has been killed off and their hostages freed. Reportedly, there are 9 arabs amongst the terrorists.
More photos (hat tip Olka)
utro.ru
Children trying to escape (when the rescue operation started) where shot in the back and beaten with rifle butts.
utro.ru
60 dead hostages identified so far.
utro.ru
690 wounded.
utro.ru
9 out of the 20 dead terrorists are arabs.
utro.ru
Front page of utro.ru, right now, has a headline stating that one of the terrorists is black.
*****
I translated one hostage's account here
*****
(Hat tip Olka for the photos)
Terrorist's official mouthpiece kavkazcenter.com
Is claiming that its the russian SWAT that is killing the hostages.Those people are sick.
(hat tip Olka)
utro.ru
Officials have stated that the operation is now over. Terrorists were either killedor apprehanded, and authorities are doubting that any have escaped. No gunfire or explosions are heard. Sapers are still checking the school for booby traps. 95 dead hostages have been identified so far.
Also, the border between Northen Osetia and Ingushetia has been closed as a precaution.
utro.ru
4 terrorists are still unaccounted for.
gazeta.ru
gazeta.ru has that number at 3.
lenta.ru
According to the latest information there are 704 persons (who were wounded in the rescue operation) in Beslan's hospitals. Some are in mobile units.
gazeta.ru
Up to 300-400 dead. According to the hostages, the explosives in the gym blew up and the roof fell. That was the cause for the storming of the building by the russian troops.
The terrorist who was caught by the civilians and severely beaten is not dead, and was handed over to the authorities.
The gym exploded due to a poorly secured booby trap, people sitting next to it were blown to bits, some bodies flew out the gym windows. Then the troops stormed in and the terrorists started to throw grenades at the hostages.
**************************************************
All the new updates will be posted here
**************************************************
Posted by Stan at September 1, 2004 09:32 AM
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Tracked on September 2, 2004 07:22 AM
» Russian School Hostage Crisis Update from The Laughing WolfFirst off, to all the Old Media types out there: they people doing this are not rebels, insurgents or frelling hostage takers. They are terrorists. They are murdering cowardly scum with ties to the Al Queda umbrella. Get your heads... [Read More]
Tracked on September 2, 2004 07:49 AM
» What a bloody week it's been from IsrapunditI've noticed that the world media and our leaders are still in denial, calling the killers "activists", "militants" and "rebels", but not once have they mentioned Islamic terrorists, despite the following events which have happened in the past week: Mo... [Read More]
Tracked on September 2, 2004 08:23 AM
» Colt's Winds of War: September 02/04 from Winds of Change.NETWelcome! Our goal at Winds of Change.NET is to give you one power-packed briefing of insights, news and trends from the global War on Terror that leaves you stimulated, informed, and occasionally amused every... [Read More]
Tracked on September 2, 2004 08:36 AM
» Updates on child hostages in Russia. from On The Third HandSnapshot of developments in Russian hostage crisis * Russian authorities rule out for now the use of force to end the day-old hostage crisis at a southern Russia school where gunmen have seized about 350 children and adults. * President Putin postpones... [Read More]
Tracked on September 2, 2004 09:19 AM
» Explosions at School in Hostage Standoff from Backcountry ConservativeAP: Two explosions rocked the area around a school where heavily armed militants, some strapped with bombs, were holed up for a second day Thursday with about 350 hostages including many children in southern Russia. The explosions came about 10... [Read More]
Tracked on September 2, 2004 09:20 AM
» Russia News from Obsidian WingsStan of Logic [Read More]
Tracked on September 2, 2004 10:02 AM
» Playing with Fire from CaerdroiaThe jihadis aim to provoke. They wish to make us act like monsters, perhaps because they need a monstrous society in which to thrive. They may yet succeed in awakening our particular inner demons, but for now it is thankfully still not possible to give... [Read More]
Tracked on September 2, 2004 10:41 AM
» Civilization Vs. Global Psychopathology from American DigestThe American Left, the Democratic Party, and John Kerry's "message" is that everyone should just back off on this "War on Terror" business and look to their wallets and their health care plans. This group of unhinged allies seems to feel the important ... [Read More]
Tracked on September 2, 2004 10:46 AM
» School seized in Russia. from Rajan RishyakaranChechen terrorists seized a school in Russia. Chechen terrorists (male and female) have seized school #1 in Beslan, North Osetia. They are holding 600 students, parents and teachers. They demand... [Read More]
Tracked on September 2, 2004 11:05 AM
» More on the Russian School Attack from CaerdroiaI wrote yesterday about the terrorists capture of a school in Russia, complete with the taking of hundreds of children as hostages and threatening their lives. There is much more information at The Glittering Eye and Logic and Sanity. The Glittering Ey... [Read More]
Tracked on September 2, 2004 11:46 AM
» The Hostage Crisis from Willow TreeThe children are not being given food yet. Damn those bastards! There are some reports from escaped hostages that 15 male hostages were made to lie on the ground and were shot dead. They have released 26 of the hostages;... [Read More]
Tracked on September 2, 2004 11:52 AM
» Russian Hostages from A Physicist's PerspectiveRUSSIAN HOSTAGES: Here's a site with running updates from a variety of Russian and other wire services on the Russian school hostage situation. This seems very thorough. Highlights/interesting tidbits are: There are 315-320 being held hostage... [Read More]
Tracked on September 2, 2004 12:04 PM
» Names of Released Hostages from mypetjawa v. 2.0 (beta)The terrorists have released 32 hostages. The names of 25 of them have been released in Russian. I have transliterated the names below. They seem to be mostly infants and their immediate caregivers. Stan at Logic and Sanity is updating... [Read More]
Tracked on September 2, 2004 03:27 PM
» The Islamic Terrorists and Their Child Hostages from American DigestStan at Logic & Sanity: School seized in Russia reads Russian and is translating, summarizing and blogging the details of this unfolding atrocity from the Russian wires whenever a new item surfaces. Earlier today, the animals who did this released 26 h... [Read More]
Tracked on September 2, 2004 05:10 PM
» Russian Hostage Crisis from Creative DestructionLogic & Sanity: School seized in Russia. There hasn't been any significant media coverage of 1,500 (!) hostages being held by Chechen terrorists in Beslan, North Osetia. This page has the breaking news.... [Read More]
Tracked on September 3, 2004 03:45 AM
» Russian School Hostage Crisis Update from The Laughing WolfFLASH TRAFFIC: There are now reports of explosions, gunfire, and fighting. Fox is reporting that at least some hostages are free, but this news is fragmentary and incomplete. There appear to be running gun battles underway. UPDATE: Interfax is running... [Read More]
Tracked on September 3, 2004 07:54 AM
» Bloody Shootout Ends Ossetian Hostage Crisis from mypetjawa v. 2.0 (beta)Horrible. Sickened. Reuters:Russian troops stormed a school Friday in a chaotic battle to free hundreds of parents, teachers and children who had been held hostage for two days by Chechen separatists. Naked and screaming children ran for safety amid ma... [Read More]
Tracked on September 3, 2004 09:25 AM
» Commandos Storm School amid Explosions, Gunfire from Backcountry ConservativeFox News reports explosions and gunfire at the school that is the scene of the hostage standoff. Developing... UPDATE Fox News Russian commandos have taken the school. More than 200 injured. Commandos are chasing down terrorists and terrorists are usin... [Read More]
Tracked on September 3, 2004 09:44 AM
» No More Study War No More For Me, Thank You from Silflay HrakaI must study politics and war that my sons may have liberty to study mathematics and philosophy. --John Adams photo via Logic and Sanity... [Read More]
Tracked on September 3, 2004 12:57 PM
» No More Study War No More For Me, Thank You from Silflay HrakaI must study politics and war that my sons may have liberty to study mathematics and philosophy. --John Adams photo via Logic and Sanity With (some, faint) apologies to Willie Dixon, Won't that be one mighty day When we hear... [Read More]
Tracked on September 3, 2004 01:01 PM
» Beslan from Boulevard St MichelHarrowing images and regular updates from the crisis in southern Russia today at Logic and Sanity. I've been glued to BBC, CNN and ITV all afternoon and am struggling to come to terms with the scenes at the school in... [Read More]
Tracked on September 3, 2004 01:07 PM
» To Russia, With Love from Mudville GazetteFirst-hand reports begin to emerge from a school a few miles to my east: The Washington Post BESLAN, Russia, Sept. 2 -- Teenager Sado Nazriyv was excited about the first day of school. He put on his pressed white shirt... [Read More]
Tracked on September 3, 2004 01:11 PM
» 100 dead in Chechen School - More Coverage from rue jules verneTroops have stormed the school in Chechnya, current estimates are at over 100 dead. Logic & Sanity has excellent coverage of the events. This is an horrible incident. I honestly don't have appropriate words for this. [Read More]
Tracked on September 3, 2004 01:29 PM
» lamentation from andunie.netA voice is heard in Ramah, Lamentation and bitter weeping, Rachel is weeping for her children; She refuses to be comforted for her children Because they are no more. As near as I can ascertain, the terrorists—many of whom... [Read More]
Tracked on September 3, 2004 01:53 PM
» The Russian School from MPhyle.comTwo sites: Feces Flinging Monkey Logic and Sanity. If, by the end of reading these two posts, you don't feel the need to find the people responsible for this and gut them like the animals they are, you need to... [Read More]
Tracked on September 3, 2004 02:16 PM
» Hostage Situation Ends from King of FoolsBackcountry Conservative has the latest on the Russian hostage situation as well as links to commentary all over. The ending sounds about as bad as it possibly could turn out. Plenty of dead innocents is tragic but not unexpected but... [Read More]
Tracked on September 3, 2004 02:25 PM
» A tragedy in Russia from Number 2 PencilEvery parent's nightmare just came true in Russia: Chechen terrorists (male and female) have seized school #895 in Beslan, North Osetia. They are holding 600 students, parents and teachers. They demand the release of 27 terrorists who were recently arr... [Read More]
Tracked on September 3, 2004 03:05 PM
» Russians Go In... from In Search of UtopiaAs many of us suspected would happen, the Russians have assaulted the school in Southern Russia where as many as 1,5000 hostages were believed to be held by seperatist terrorist. Reports are spotty. CNN is reporting that the fighting is... [Read More]
Tracked on September 3, 2004 03:31 PM
» Russia from Gratuitous Sax and Senseless ViolinsThe image above was taken from Logic and Sanity, which I found via The Command Post. Children. I keep looking at these pictures, and I wonder where their clothes are, and I cannot imagine how terrifying it must have... [Read More]
Tracked on September 3, 2004 04:08 PM
» Wild Kingdom from Pathetic EarthlingsIf, on this sunny Friday afternoon, you wish to contemplate the bestial nature of man, you can think about two dozen maniacs taking 354 families hostage on the first day of school, with the manifest purpose that none would leave... [Read More]
Tracked on September 3, 2004 04:35 PM
» Russian school siege ended, few terrorists flee from Whatsakyer? Animal? Vegetable? Mineral?[...] Logic and Sanity has absolutely incredible coverage... [Read More]
Tracked on September 3, 2004 05:14 PM
» Too horrible from In ContextMeryl links to this post at Logic & Sanity, where Stan is blogging the real news about the terror and tragedy in Russia from the... [Read More]
Tracked on September 3, 2004 06:49 PM
» Russian Terrorism from Squidly.comComprehensive reporting on the terrorist events at the school in Russia can be found here. This site also has a... [Read More]
Tracked on September 3, 2004 08:29 PM
» RUSSIA'S 9/11 from Michelle MalkinDon't let the Labor Day holiday be an excuse to slack off and neglect staying the ongoing horror and suffering of Russian parents and children at the hands of Islamic terrorists. Read about this Sophie's Choice nightmare. Take in the... [Read More]
Tracked on September 3, 2004 10:49 PM
» Broken Hearted from Random (but not really)My heart has been breaking this week, as I've read the news, and seen the pictures, from the school hostage crisis in Russia. I will never be able to such a horror. Nor do I want to.... [Read More]
Tracked on September 3, 2004 11:51 PM
» I Have No Words for This from Way Off BassA sonnet commentary. [Read More]
Tracked on September 4, 2004 03:00 AM
» God, Please bless the Russians from FubarMag.com NewsDear God - I grieve for the Russian people as if they are my own family. As I look the images...I don't know what to say....I can't even begin to fathom the pain that the moms, dads, children, and soldiers [Read More]
Tracked on September 4, 2004 08:01 AM
» Today We Are All Russians, We Are All Ossetians from Brad DeLong's Semi-Daily Journal: A WeblogToday we are all Russians, we are all Ossetians. Logic and Sanity: Up to 300-400 dead. According to the hostages, the explosives in the gym blew up and the roof fell. That was the cause for the storming of the building by the russian troops. The terro... [Read More]
Tracked on September 4, 2004 01:45 PM
» 156 from Pardon My English156 Russian children were among the 323 people killed by Chechen terrorists, who were reportedly following the "terror roadmap laid out in issue 10 of Al Battar, al-Qaida's online training manual." 156 Russian children who were attending the firs... [Read More]
Tracked on September 4, 2004 10:17 PM
» 156 from Pardon My English156 Russian children were among the 323 people killed by Chechen terrorists, who were reportedly following the "terror roadmap laid out in issue 10 of Al Battar, al-Qaida's online training manual." 156 Russian children who were attending the firs... [Read More]
Tracked on September 4, 2004 10:17 PM
» Losing the World from Willow TreeThis morning the Monkey brought me a book and showed me she could "read." Well, not yet, but her joy in her not yet ability was quite unabashedly strong. While English is her first language she will learn to read... [Read More]
Tracked on September 5, 2004 01:18 AM
» What War On Terror? from Your Daily PrescottIf you want to see what Muslim terrorists do to innocentchildren (I mean, if you haven't already seen the buses of children killed by Palestinian terrorists) you can go to this site keep scrolling down. Note: These are no the... [Read More]
Tracked on September 6, 2004 02:56 PM
» lamentation from andunie.netA voice is heard in Ramah, Lamentation and bitter weeping, Rachel is weeping for her children; She refuses to be comforted for her children, Because they are no more. [Read More]
Tracked on September 7, 2004 01:23 AM
» A day at school from the fourth railSincerest condolences to the the families and friends of those who lost loved ones in the unthinkable crimes in Russia. For a complete timeline of the Russian hostage crisis, go to Logic and Sanity. Stan and Olka are translating the... [Read More]
Tracked on September 7, 2004 11:22 AM
Comments
here's more http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml;jsessionid=AM0EYQZET0LAICRBAEZSFFA?type=topNews&storyID=6124494www.voina.ruwww.pravda.ru
skoti
Posted by: olka at September 1, 2004 11:12 AM
olka, thanks.
Posted by: Stan at September 1, 2004 11:13 AM
Yea... not much more one can say.If they don't blow themselves up, there might be another Moscow Theater scenario.
Posted by: Noofy at September 1, 2004 11:32 AM
Thanks for the updates. I can get the gist of things but my Russian isn't really good enough to do any real translating.
Posted by: Kathy K at September 1, 2004 11:57 AM
and if they do blow themselves up there'll be a pile of dead children in that school i doubt putin will allow another west-nord fiasco
Posted by: olka at September 1, 2004 11:58 AM
Time for the US to get serious about close cooperation with Russia. Pay the Russian nuclear engineering companies whatever they need to stop supplying Iran. Step up intel and military cooperation. Let NATO die a quiet death and replace it with a new Entente comprising US, Russia, India, Israel and Turkey.
Posted by: lex at September 1, 2004 12:17 PM
Translated from voina.ru:
Terrorists agreed to the negotiations the chief OF UFSB on North Osetia Valerie Andreev it reported that was possible to establish contact with the terrorists, who took school in the North Osetian city Beslane. According to him, the negotiations already began. Furthermore, the representative OF UFSB reported that at present are undertaken the measures for doctor Leonid roshal's search, in order to deliver him into Beslan and to continue telephone-box process with the terrorists, since one of their requirements - negotiations with doctor roshal's participation.
Posted by: Wisconsin at September 1, 2004 12:29 PM
Thank you for the updates. This is terrifying.
Posted by: RP at September 1, 2004 12:30 PM
We have no one to blame but ourselves... The world was a much safer place when the US and Russia were in a cold war.
Posted by: Wisconsin at September 1, 2004 12:32 PM
Leonid Roshal was specifically asked for by the terrorists. He's a famous children's doctor in Russia. He also was part of the negotiation team in the siege of the theater in Moscow.
Posted by: Stan at September 1, 2004 12:34 PM
Thanks for the GREAT job. My thoughts and prayers go out to the students, teachers and families. Am now referring people to your site from mine, in place of my trying to cover this.
Posted by: Laughing Wolf at September 1, 2004 01:11 PM
Laughing wolf, thanks. This is pretty important. Having lunch at my desk, today.
Posted by: Stan at September 1, 2004 01:14 PM
God. I feel sick as I read all of this horrible news. To attack a school is lowest of all possible forms of attack. These people have no dignity or humanity. Our prayers go out to you all.
Posted by: Giya at September 1, 2004 01:14 PM
More links for ya to dwell on:http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/russian/russia/newsid_3616000/3616832.stmhttp://www.dni.ru/news/russia/2004/9/1/48644.html
not that it matters kp reports it’s school #1 typo?
http://dni.ru/news/glavred/2004/9/1/48596.html ß this is on putin and his situation right now
anywho I’m sick to my stomach so I’m going to stop watching this =/
p.s. love politically correct cnn they call them hostage-takers, and the headline is still rep convention they should rethink their above the fold strategy
Posted by: olka at September 1, 2004 01:44 PM
Olka, my bad. That was before my first cup of coffee :)Thanks!
Posted by: Stan at September 1, 2004 01:53 PM
Regarding the terrorists, nay, regarding extreme Muslims:
Necca eos ominies, Deus suos agnoscet.
Posted by: Ggzn1 at September 1, 2004 02:53 PM
RP:
The blame for these horrific acts rests entirely with the terrorists and no one else.
Posted by: Ted at September 1, 2004 02:55 PM
Stan,
Damn right. It's like the IRA used to say, "You have to be lucky all the time. We only have to be lucky once."
Once ONE modern nation decides to grasp the nettle, this problem is gonna be OVER. Doesn't much matter who it is.
Posted by: Steve Johnson at September 1, 2004 03:05 PM
Stan,
Thanks for staying on top of this. It's unbelieveable the depths to which these f*ckers will sink.
Preston
Posted by: Preston Taylor Holmes at September 1, 2004 03:17 PM
I am paralyzed with sickness.This war will not be won until the Enemy is named.Terror is an M.O. Islamazoids are the enemy and Bush better call these bastards out by name soon.
Posted by: Mule at September 1, 2004 03:34 PM
I'm thinking that one of the reasons they chose to take children hostage is because any dose of gas (like what was used in the theatre incident) strong enough to knock-out the adult terrorists would no doubt kill a child.
Posted by: Deus ex Macrame at September 1, 2004 04:49 PM
Deus, I doubt that's their thinking. A school is a soft target, that's all. What's more terrifying to people then child hostages?
By the way, in 1996 Basayev took hostage a whole hospital and made the women in maternity ward stand in the windows to be used as live shields. Sounds like a B movie plot, but it happened.
The latest siege is reminiscent of the hostage drama at Budennovsk in 1995, when Chechen rebels led by Shamil Basayev seized a Russian hospital in order, he later said, to make Russians suffer the way Chechens had suffered. Although 166 hostages died when the very same Russian anti-terrorism unit that is currently surrounding the Moscow theater stormed the Buddenovsk hospital, Basayev and his men escaped.
Posted by: Stan at September 1, 2004 04:54 PM
Fucking Bush. "Making our world safer" my ass.
Posted by: Eric at September 1, 2004 05:19 PM
Eric,
You must be one of those stupid Americans Michael Moore likes to rant about. Chechens were cutting off heads and kidnapping people since the early 90's (on a mass scale, anyway).
Posted by: Stan at September 1, 2004 05:28 PM
http://www.rbcdaily.ru/news/policy/index.shtml?2004/09/01/58721
The last wave of attacks in Russia is blamed on a Western secret service
Posted by: Rygor at September 1, 2004 06:15 PM
I'd LOVE to hear the rational for blaming Bush for THIS fiasco...
Posted by: Sgt. B. at September 1, 2004 06:40 PM
Go soft (Hint to the dems out there), and the USA will see this as well.
Posted by: Great Hunter at September 1, 2004 06:40 PM
We have no one to blame but ourselves... The world was a much safer place when the US and Russia were in a cold war.Oh, yeah! Let's blame anyone but the terrorist bastards who are threatening to kill scores of school children! That's f'ing brilliant.
My heart and prayers go out to the poor children being terrified by these bastards and the poor families of the hostages waiting helplessly for their loved ones. I only hope that some deal can be worked out to free them. And I hope those terrorist bastards suffer horrible deaths for this sickening, barbaric act!
Posted by: Dar at September 1, 2004 06:40 PM
An increase in nuclear facility security, and a call to convene the UN Security Council?
Noting that early reports are often wrong, that is an unsettling combination of events.
Posted by: jeffers at September 1, 2004 07:56 PM
jeffers,
Here's a Reuters link.
Russia deployed extra troops to guard dozens of nuclear facilities across the country on Wednesday after militants seized a school in the south and a suicide bomb attack in Moscow, the nuclear authority said.
Posted by: Stan LS at September 1, 2004 08:02 PM
Words fail me when confronted with such evil but thank you Stan for keeping us updated.
Posted by: the poetess at September 1, 2004 08:16 PM
Want to end nuclear proliferation? The US should bomb Saudi Arabia, Israel should bomb Iran, Russia should bomb Chechnya, Pakistan and India should be 'persuaded' to bomb to... oh, I dunno, France maybe.
World peace all around. Cause these 'minority of extremists' that seem to be everywhere is killing us in the name of a 7th century Arabian moon-god.
Posted by: Mus Zibii at September 1, 2004 08:20 PM
Has anyone determined definitively whether these terrorists are Chechens, OR ethnic Ossetians who are representing the interests of the mostly Muslim Ossetian minority in the breakaway Georgian republic of South Ossetia? I'm not sure what religion non-Russian North Ossetians commonly are, but South Ossetians are Persian-derived Muslims.
Posted by: John-Paul Pagano at September 1, 2004 08:22 PM
The majority of North Ossetians are Christian Orthodox (same church as ethnic rusisans), it was said that these terrorists are from an Ingushetian village... allegedly.. not 100% yet.Ingushetians are muslims, by the way.
Posted by: Stan LS at September 1, 2004 08:30 PM
My heart is heavy with sadness at witnessing yet another school being taken hostage. I am fighting grief off, hoping that the outcome I am all too familiar with, will not come to pass.
All I have now are words for prayer.
Posted by: michele at September 1, 2004 09:58 PM
How many extermination camps, and how long would it take, to eliminate the over one billion (and growing fast) particles that currently make up the deathcult virus?The chemical and contruction industries would benefit. Not to mention the resources required to collect and contain all the deathcult virus particles, ready for processing.
Posted by: khafir at September 1, 2004 10:49 PM
managed to turn off at least two guys with witchy ramblings about this situation at a party attended tonight(thumbs up)tipsy and still pissed at cnn they are still rambling about rep convention f*cktaking my camera tomm to the city to take some shots of 'nutty' protesters (bush is in the city (want to make a dirty remark, but restrain self dispite tipsiness ;))))thumbs up with updates came here before checking up on any news (mostly old ) at other websites
afraid to wake up tomorrow to here of any more senseless casualtiesscrew russia inadequate pricks, who can't deal with their problemsanywho i'll take PMS any day over this -- ruins your mood 10x
p.s. reading other other blogs and news, in addition, pissed off at all pissed at muslims. People should realize the difference between muslims and fundumental muslims. sooo, before i change my mind i'm hitting the post button and i'll chat with ya in the morning :))
Posted by: olka at September 2, 2004 12:38 AM
I've been thinking about these children and their parents/teachers all night, and have searched the web like crazy to find updates. Thank you for providing the information on what is happening.These slimeballs and all that helped them to take these children hostage should neveer see the light of day again.
Posted by: Rachel Ann at September 2, 2004 01:49 AM
Hope the Russion CT operators are getting advice from SAS, GSG9, Delta, or whoever, cause they have a bitch of a target on their hands now.
Slab out.
Posted by: Slabsides at September 2, 2004 02:16 AM
i think its time to track down who is manufacturing the weapons that are in the possession of the weapons. its about time all weapons manufacturing companies are nationalized and seized and used only for military and police purposes. no individual sales. zero tolerance towards those individual/s in possession. as far as the current situation goes....tell the dam terrorists ALLAH has committed suicide
Posted by: suril desai at September 2, 2004 03:37 AM
Incredible how wrong-headed dope makes people. Blame Bush...blame America...blame non-fat milk...blame the lilies of the field...blame anyone but the vermin who carry out these vile acts.
As G. K. Chesterton (?) once said, "When people stop believing in God, they don't believe in nothing, they believe in anything."
So the streets of NYC fill up with leftists, street thugs, sewer scum, and other useful idiots to vilify those who are willing to stand up against evil.
A pox on all their houses. A pox on the spineless United Nations. A pox on Democrats who require permission slips from France and the U.N. to confront terrorism.
The bright side all this stupidity presents? Bush will win at least 40 states in November!
Posted by: Allan at September 2, 2004 04:14 AM
I'm a mother with two kids and it makes me very uncomfortable imagining this scenario. I keep putting myself in the shoes of the mothers I see in the pictures, and it makes me cringe and cry. I'm not religious but I pray for the kids and all the other victims of these psychopaths, both inside that school and out. They don't deserve to be dragged into these putrid scum's problems. They are just kids. First day of school for some, which is supposed to be happy, exciting event, not such a horrifying nightmare. I hope all the hostages end up safe. And I truly, deeply, sincerely hope each of the hostage-takers suffer a long and painful death, and soon. Damn you to hell!
Posted by: Feralee at September 2, 2004 04:24 AM
My suggestion to the North Ossetians would be to destroy the Ingushetians, every one.
Islam delenda est!
Posted by: John at September 2, 2004 07:14 AM
Stan,
Thanks you so much for putting all the updates here for us to see. The media have gone very quiet about this... and they're still not calling the terrorists by their name... Islamic terrorists!
Posted by: Nannette at September 2, 2004 07:20 AM
Excellent site, well done hope its kept up today
Posted by: Robert Cooper at September 2, 2004 07:37 AM
Thank you again for the GREAT job you are doing!
Posted by: Laughing Wolf at September 2, 2004 10:34 AM
Thanks.
Posted by: Stan at September 2, 2004 10:36 AM
stan check the last update i think that might be an old update when they didn't know who exactly was released. I read the same thing at some point but then looked at the time http://www.gazeta.ru/2004/09/02/last132177.shtml
they released in total 2615 children and 11 women
Posted by: olka at September 2, 2004 12:34 PM
if all the children released so far are below school age then unless I'm missing something the women and infants who were released were in all likliehood there with older school age children that remain inside. I can't imagine what it must have been like for those mothers to be faced with the choice of saving their youngest at the cost of leaving their older children behind. The spirit of Dr Mengele lives among the terrorists.
Posted by: Hank at September 2, 2004 12:35 PM
Olka, yea, I covered that :) Also posted a list of the released hostages.
Posted by: Stan at September 2, 2004 12:52 PM
stan they released only 26 hostages which you already covered now it sounds like it's 20 more which is wrong :) that's what i meant
Posted by: olka at September 2, 2004 12:57 PM
My deep gratitude to you for this enormous contribution. We're hanging on your every word.
May Gd protect the lives of those precious children.
Posted by: Anne Lieberman at September 2, 2004 01:08 PM
Wrong? Not according to the source.. Click the link. I make sure to cite everything.
Posted by: Stan at September 2, 2004 01:08 PM
Olka, you're right. They referred to the same 26 people. There's inconsistency, though. They said 4 children and 22 women were released, but when you look at the list it has way more children then just the 4 mentioned, hence I thought they referred to a different group.
I removed that entry. Thanks for pointing it out.
Posted by: Stan at September 2, 2004 01:28 PM
Thank you for taking the time to maintain this database. It has been very informative.
Posted by: mournlight at September 2, 2004 02:03 PM
Stan:
Just wanted to tell you of my deep appreciation of the effort you are making at bringing this horrendous situation to light, and in your keeping people updated with developments. We are learning the hard lessons of playing footsie with terrorists. I look at my 8-year-old son and am reminded that he could be in that situation, too. It is awful for any parent.
I hope that the world wakes up to the reality of these murderers and deals with Islamic terrorists directly, harshly, and completely so other people do not have to go through this hell.
Posted by: Alaska Paul at September 2, 2004 02:10 PM
hank, you spelled Y-E-A-H wrong! and it's site note cite
Posted by: denise at September 2, 2004 04:23 PM
thanks Denise. I was going to say that was pretty much a low misspell count for me when I realized I hadn't used either word. I think. my post is the one above. Stan spelled it yea. But growing up in Brooklyn I spelled it the same :)
Posted by: Hank at September 2, 2004 04:49 PM
Hank,
I blame "growing up in Brooklyn ", too. :]
Posted by: Stan at September 2, 2004 04:54 PM
I also wish to extend my apreciation for your coverage of this situation.
Posted by: Evert Visser at September 2, 2004 05:08 PM
Stan,
Bay Ridge near Owl's Head park for me. how about you?
and I want to thank you for doing this as well. it's the only source of any info on this horror. thanks
Posted by: Hank at September 2, 2004 05:21 PM
Hank,Lived for about 11 years on 63rd st and 24th ave, and for the past few years in sheepshead bay.
You're welcome!
Posted by: Stan at September 2, 2004 05:28 PM
69th and Colonial Road. but it was a long time ago. long enough that I have vague memories of them building the Verrezano Narrows Bridge.
Posted by: Hank at September 2, 2004 05:32 PM
WORLD WAKE UP!!!! Is this the kind of enemy that requires a "more sensitive" war? It isn't our fault you anti-american peace-niks! You help those bastards, those cowards, those terroists, when you say it is our fault! Whose side are you on anyway? One can say that you are during a wonderful job for PR for the terroists. If you hate us so much, GET OUT! I am so angry at these terrorists! God be with the children, and their families. GET THEE BEHIND US SATAN! Thanks for the updates! Lord knows we can't get any fair news from our media.
Posted by: Hailey at September 2, 2004 06:42 PM
I feel so bad for both the parents and their children in this situation. I mean look at the pictures of these children, they look terrified. And what's with half of the kids with no clothes on? I pray that this all ends peacefully.
Posted by: Mark at September 2, 2004 07:09 PM
Mark,
Naked children is no big deal outside of US. Its perfectly acceptable to have your toddlers run around naked on the beach in Europe.
Posted by: Stan LS at September 2, 2004 07:15 PM
Oh ok. I mean I see nothing wrong with it. I know here in the U.S. we don't show nudity on TV when most of Europe has no problem with it. At least Europeans aren't afraid of the human body.
Posted by: Mark at September 2, 2004 07:25 PM
Stan,
One more question. Do parents allow their children, younger ones I mean, to run around naked in school too over in Europe?
Posted by: Mark at September 2, 2004 07:32 PM
Not as far as I know, but you are loosing the context here. Do you know how many bathroom breaks they got over there? What the conditions, are? Etc.
Posted by: Stan LS at September 2, 2004 08:09 PM
Thanks for updating and maintining this information. Trying to find updated information about this, is very annoying in the US. You are the only site with current information.
Hope all of those kids make it home in one piece.
Posted by: Sedistik at September 2, 2004 08:40 PM
No Stan I don't, but I should have guessed that the conditions are not very good. I wasn't trying to go off subject with my questions.
Posted by: Mark at September 2, 2004 09:02 PM
Stan,
It's just that Bush has repeatedly said to the American public that "his" war against terrorism is making the world safer. I'm not blaming Bush for anything except his stupid remarks and the people who believe his war is crushing global terrorism. Will America get involved with this like in Iraq or does Russia have the ability to make sure this doesn't happen again? Stupid question, I know.
Posted by: Eric at September 2, 2004 09:10 PM
Eric,
It is making the world safer. War in Kashmir, Chechnya, Philippens etc., are being financed by rich Arab sheiks. We showed them that we mean business and that they can't just sit around and fund these terrorists unpunished. Look at what's going on today. These terrorists who took the school hostage did not make any demands as of yet. Why do you think that is? Maybe even from abroad. Whoever is paying them, is controlling them, and the money is coming from abroad. They are definately getting orders from the outside.
Posted by: Stan LS at September 2, 2004 09:36 PM
Stan:
Gazeta.ru has just printed a letter from Maskhadov condemning the taking of hostages, etc.
Posted by: Dave Schuler at September 2, 2004 09:45 PM
I have some advice for Putin and the authorities at the school. Attack quickly, aim at their head, and expect casualties. But foremost of all, do not allow one terrorist to survive the assault. Send this message to terrorism, and it will reverberate loudly.
Best of luck to those in the midst of this.
Posted by: Frank at September 2, 2004 11:05 PM
Skynews (via Utro.ru) reports that two explosions and shots have been heard in the vicinity of the school. It appears to be outgoing fire.
Posted by: Dave Schuler at September 2, 2004 11:08 PM
If I was Putin I would round up the ambassadors from Saudi and Paki and tie them to tanks and drive them past the terrorists in the school building. I would also send a message to the Imams in Saudi , Egypt, Pakistan, and other places spreading poison, that if the terrs harmed the schoold children the gloves were off and their countries and their religious leaders and institutions and madrassas and Islamic universitieis and mosques would pay the price starting with Al Azhar in Cairo which would get a nice JDAM type bomb put right on top. The enablers are the Saudi, iranian, egyptian, paki, and Palestinain terrorists. last but not least I would tell the BBC, REuters, the UK Guardian, and CNN if they referred to the terrs once more as "militants" I would string up all their journalists in Russia by the nuts (presuming they have any that is)
Posted by: A Bomb On Mecca And One On Tehran Would Stop This at September 2, 2004 11:32 PM
ok it hasn't been officially confirmed but utro.ru reported that they made a 'mistake' it's not 354 people held hostage but 354 families which makes it around 1020 people. this claim is supported by the families outside. (how do you miscalculate something like that?)
agree with 'a bomb on mecca and one on tehran' regarding news agencies... totally outraged by cnn's coverage of events. I realize it's not top story on their agenda due to ever eloquent bush speech tonight but the least they can do is call things their own names
at least they switched to 'militant' instead of 'hostage-takers'
Posted by: olka at September 3, 2004 12:51 AM
Stan,
I cannot know who's controlling these Russian terrorists. I'm glued to your report like a crack-addict to his smack.
Posted by: Eric at September 3, 2004 12:55 AM
stan sorry i'm doing this but based on this (in russian):http://www.newsru.com/russia/03sep2004/1000.html
2 of the women released by the hostages yesterday when approached by the journalists about the number of people inside were outraged and said that the number is at least 1020 (one said it's around 1500)... 'people are lying on top of each other... the windows were broken after people started suffocating...'
www.gzt.ru... 'everyone knows that the number in the school is thrice the officially reported. "There are 44 classes (each 30 people)" said Fatima Ailarova, who's daughter (6th grader) is one of the hostages "What 350 people? when officially 890 people are registered for this school year + 59 teachers + family members. It can't possibly be less than a 1000. Why lie so cruely?"
one of the women released yesterday discribed the first minutes of the attack. She said that there were many injuries among adults and kids anyone who couldn't walk into school without help were shot in the inside yard, bodies remain there. Men who did not comply were later executed. She estimates the number of executed as 20.
sick sick sick
Posted by: olka at September 3, 2004 01:07 AM
Thank you for the updates. I wanted to convey my sincere appreciation for your efforts. It's obvious that the media is not affording us any reasonable amount of coverage on this horrendous situation. I am absolutely sick to my stomach over this, literally. People, pay attention, if we sway or become soft, the same thing could happen to us (keep this in mind when voting in Nov!). It's time we stand up and fight these cowardly bags of scum. These acts are conjured up to instill fear in all of us and, quite honestly, with each passing terroristic act, I am less inclined to pay attention to the fear, and more inclined to listen to the fury that continues to escalate to an incredible degree of seething animosity. I'm starting to view this whole terrorism thing (in general) as I did the bully scenarios back in middle school. Unless you finally stand up and beat the f***in cr*p out of the bastard, he/she will never stop the bullying because he/she relies on the fear he/she creates to maintain and build his/her confidence with each passing taunt thrown out at frightened kids. Ever notice how quickly these bullies tended to shrink away into the crowd once they were confronted and had the sh*t seriously kicked out of them? Ok, I'm digressing from my original intentions for this posting, I'm just so damn angry. I guess I just neede to get some of that anger out of my system.My heart pours out to all of the children and the families involved in this horrendous situation. I have prayed to god in a fit of tears for the safety of the children and all of those involved. Isn't there anything we can do to help these people? I've been racking my head to figure out what one could do to help in this specific situation. I can't stop imagining my child (she'll be attending her first day of school next week) in the clutches of these sub-human pieces of excrement. For me, such thoughts evoke the initial emotion of absolute fury at the situation in Russia, along with an insurmountable desire to take action! By the way, I don't care whether these terrorists are activists, muslim, jewish, cristian, buddhist or al kaeda affiliates. It doesn't make one iota of a difference and I won't give them the honor of caring because they all blend into one large blur along with their worthless messages. Anyone who is cowardly enough to take a building filled with innocent children hostage is the lowest form of terrorist ever incarnated on this earth and should be treated as such. If they're trying to get a message across with such actions, it falls upon deaf ears here. The only message I'm getting is that these sub-humans need to hear an incredible outcry and feel the heavy hand of the world's anger upon them as they've never felt it before. Then, and only then, will they take their rightful place among society...eradicated from it. God, I'm so angry!!!
Posted by: Susie Q at September 3, 2004 02:28 AM
situation looks very bad. non stop coverage on Fox right now. non stop gunfire for the 20 minutes I've been listening and it was already under way when I woke up. Report the roof has collapsed.
Posted by: Hank at September 3, 2004 05:49 AM
in regards the earlier comments about the naked children. apparently the conditions in the school are so bad, plus 100 degree heat etc, that the children were allowed to strip off for some relief.
Posted by: Hank at September 3, 2004 05:52 AM
press report, via Fox, that Russian troops in control of building
Posted by: Hank at September 3, 2004 06:10 AM
somewhat sketchy report on Fox. apparently the terrorists finally agreed to allow the bodies that had been lying in front of the school to be removed. as the ambulances approached two mines detonated. a report that some of the terrorists then tried to escape using children as shields. this is when the group of 30 women and children broke free. very preliminary so take it with a grain of salt.
Posted by: Hank at September 3, 2004 06:26 AM
Hank,that report on Fox comes from the Tass news agency - so should be viewed with some skepticism. As they were reporting the Tass statement from the newsroom in NYC, you could still hear lots of gunfire going on in the live audio. The guy Fox has on the street there sounded very skeptical of that report from what he could see and hear.
Posted by: dap at September 3, 2004 06:31 AM
thanks dap. I'm just trying to throw up a few items so the rest have some sort of timeline when they wake up.
I've heard that background fire as well. I'm wondering if that may be related to the terrorists who have escaped. They are probably trying to hunt them down. So while the school may be secured, may, the surrounding territory is not.
just praying for those kids and their families
Posted by: Hank at September 3, 2004 06:40 AM
it does now seem that may be the case... I am sick to death about this whole thing. The thought that this has been so thoroughly planned - like in a committee, and isn't just some random madness, makes me physically sick. What kind of monsters can sit around and coolly plan how to herd schoolchildren into a gym and wire the exits with mines, and use the kids as shields to escape? But I suppose it's the same kind of monsters who can cut off someone's head on video, or sit around and plan to fly commercial jetliners into crowded office buildings.
Posted by: dap at September 3, 2004 06:51 AM
Ok the Russians don't have it as under control as first thought. 158 kids (naked - what's with the naked??) taken to hospital. 12 dead so far. Many injured. School roof is on fire. Still some fighting inside the school. So there are still hostages in danger. But I need to find more info than the CNN reporter there on scene talking by videophone. Is anyone keeping a better track on this? Please email me and let me know so I can read and listen at the same time. 5 terrorists are dead, some have fled but there is still some in the school and still some kids in school. I'm on the edge of my seat, could use constant updates from someone there. Let me know who's covering it please? Thank you~Cindy
Posted by: firstbrokenangel at September 3, 2004 08:10 AM
ok i'm running to work but couldn't help myself:so the stormed the school over 300 injured around 12 dead some 'militants' fleed, others blew themselves up there is a fight in the area
Cindy, i found reuters or nytimes is a bit better than cnn quicker with updates :)by logicandsanity still better right :) once stan wakes up lol
happy, can't say all well that ends well but sooo happy this is in the past
Posted by: olka at September 3, 2004 08:49 AM
First of all, I want to thank Stan and the others here who have done tremendous work in translating the Russian news reports and keeping track of the situation. The blogosphere scores again! Second of all, I can't believe that this hasn't gotten more coverage in the U.S. Third, I'm with Susie Q in that I don't give a damn about the ideology of the people who did this -- they need to be taken down, regardless. Using infants as hostages? The very definition of the word "depravity". Or maybe "evil" is more appropriate, and that's a word I don't use lightly.
Posted by: Cousin Dave at September 3, 2004 09:14 AM
The kids are naked because it was so hot in the gym (or where ever they were being held).
Posted by: superfly at September 3, 2004 09:19 AM
I am updating.. Just got to work.. Hopefully my boss isn't around ...
Posted by: Stan at September 3, 2004 09:19 AM
Stan - thank you very much for your updates.
Posted by: superfly at September 3, 2004 09:22 AM
Dude, if you get fired, there's always a job as an investigative reporter for AP! Maybe you're in the wrong business...
Posted by: Noofy at September 3, 2004 09:56 AM
Noof,
Har, har. AP would make me report on Peterson, not this.
Posted by: Stan at September 3, 2004 10:23 AM
This is what I know thus far. An ambulance went up to pick up 20 bodies and when it did so, the land mines blew up. A little over 150 kids and adults bolted and when they did, the terrorists started shooting at them, then the Russians started shooting at the terorists, putting the people and kids running in a cross fire. Most made it out. There are 2 terrorists still inside the school and the Russians are in there checking room by room. The bomb that went off in the gym made the roof collapsed and went on fire. They are trying to put out the fire but 2 or 3 of the terrorists are shooting at them. Ok, 3 militants holed up in the basement of the school. The Russians did not storm the school. When the ambulance pulled up to get the bodies, the terrorists set off some bombs. They have not been able to reach the gym yet but it is believed there are over 100 bodies in there, some of them badly burnt. There are already over 350 people in the hospital right now being checked out, some very serious and critical. Until they can stop those 3 terrorists from firing at them, get out the fire, get into that gym, there's no way to find out who those 100 plus people/kids who are dead are yet. That slew of psychologists? Those kids are going to need it. They must have started killing them from the moment they took these kids. This is just unspeakable horror and I can't come up with words to express my utter horror and disgust over this situation. There was a report that said the two women blew themselves up after the 20 men were killed but this morning, they said the women took off and are in a neighboring house. This is a school with kids from infancy to adults (parents); there's already more than 350 people in the hospital and there's more than 100 dead and burnt in the gym they can't reach. This is just horrendous. I don't think there is a word to explain how awful this is for everyone even us on the opposite side of the world knowing how horrible that must be. And the more they learn, the worse it gets.~Cindy
Posted by: firstbrokenangel at September 3, 2004 11:10 AM
I found the link to your blog on the "FreeRepublic.com" website. Just wanted to express my appreciation for your efforts on this story. Your up-to-the-minute coverage is excellent. CNN, AOL news, and most major media continue the "appeasement" of terrorists by referring to them as "militants", "gunmen", "rebels", and the utterly idiotic euphemism "hostage-takers".Actually, the occupation of the school -- the murders of the adult men, the use of women and children as human shields, and the barbaric treatment of all the hostages -- is metaphorical of the Wahhabist movement in Chechnya in general. Since the early 90's Wahhabis associated with al Qaeda and the Taliban have been systematically murdering Sufi leaders in Chechnya and establishing jamaats (Islamist schools) to convert the Sufi youth to the extremist Wahhabi sect. Wahhabist "rebels" then use the Sufi population as human shields, to base their attacks on the Chechen militia and Federal forces. The use of female suicide bombers has less to do with "romantic" nonsense about revenge than with a degrading Wahhabi doctrine regarding females: women cannot attain paradise, except as "martyrs" in "holy jihad".It was encouraging to hear President Bush condemn the terrorists in these latest attrocities, and to say that they are not "rebels" or "militants" but "TERRORISTS" in a worldwide jihad. Now if only the appeasers in our government and media would get a clue....
Posted by: Chapulina at September 3, 2004 11:18 AM
Stan,
Thanks so much for this coverage. I think a side-by-side comparision of your reporting vs. the mainstream (lack of) effort would make a strong, strong case study. Mainstream media controls what we see no longer.
Posted by: Dave Warner at September 3, 2004 11:25 AM
yeah regarding those hiding in the basement. Supposedly they are still holding children hostages using them as human shieldshttp://www.newsru.com/russia/03sep2004/stilll.html
Posted by: olka at September 3, 2004 11:27 AM
gruesomehttp://www.utro.ru/gallery.shtml?20040903child,5,17,,240
Posted by: olka at September 3, 2004 11:32 AM
phenomenal job on this Stan...
What's the latest on who the fatalities are? Some are reporting 100 dead.
Posted by: Edward at September 3, 2004 11:57 AM
100 reported dead in the gym only, but there are so many others...they don't know the number yet each newspaper reports differentlyone said there are 600 injuries
Posted by: olka at September 3, 2004 12:04 PM
Edward, gazeta.ru reported 150 dead a while back. And that's a minimum. Latest number of wounded, according to utro.ru, is 690.I apologize for sloppy typing, awkward sentences, etc. I am at work.
Posted by: Stan at September 3, 2004 12:05 PM
Also, would like to thank Olka for helping out.
Posted by: Stan at September 3, 2004 12:05 PM
It was just said on the BBC that Interfax is reporting that there were as many as 1200 hostages being held.
Posted by: Mark at September 3, 2004 12:07 PM
Mark,
Yes, reported here ~10 hours ago.
Zalina Dzandorova, one of the 26 hostages released yesterday, told of this a while back.
BBC is too busy whitewashing the terrorists to report the facts.
Apparently the official ~350 estimate came from a number of last names, not a number of people.
Posted by: Stan at September 3, 2004 12:14 PM
BBC website confirms at least 9 Arabs amongst the barbarians:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3624024.stm
Posted by: Nannette at September 3, 2004 12:15 PM
Stan and Olga, thanks for giving us these updates. Without both of you, we'd all be in the dark.
And Stan, if you'd put a paypal link on your site, I'm sure there's many of us who would be happy to donate.
You've put a lot of time and energy into this...
Nannette
Posted by: Nannette at September 3, 2004 12:26 PM
Nannette,
Thanks for the offer, but that's not necessary. I am touched, though.
Posted by: Stan at September 3, 2004 12:28 PM
Stan,
You are to be commended for bringing this outrage to the world's attention. Your coverage is lightyears beyond the mainstream media's. I can only hope your boss would be proud of what you have done here. The perpetrators involved are TERRORISTS, not "armed gangs," "hostage takers," "militants" or "rebels." All who see how the media has distorted this event must remember what they have read here.
I am in a towering rage right now. I know the pictures at this site will never make it to prime time and that is a searing condemnation of modern broadcast journalism.
For centuries, Islamism has devoured its own young. Now the Islamists are devouring *our* young. Violent jihadists must all die, and quickly. We do not need a repetition of this event to assure us about it.
Last but not least, thank you so much, Stan. You are doing the world a vast service making sure this reaches the maximum number of people. Anyone who was sitting on the fence about terrorism should be able to make up their mind after visiting your site. Please accept my deepest gratitude.
Posted by: Zenster at September 3, 2004 12:33 PM
I left a comment at the BBC site blasting them for their inability to call a spade a spade. They apparently can't use the word "terrorist" unless it's in reference to the IRA. Dirtbags.
And I sure wouldn't want to be a Chechen Islamic terrorist right now. Or any other kind of Chechen, for that matter. The Russians are likely to make an object lesson out of them, and they aren't known for being merciful or forgiving, especially since they aren't constrained by having to care about human rights or international opinion. All I can say is "Give 'em hell, Putin."
Posted by: BarCodeKing at September 3, 2004 12:44 PM
You nutbags. Islamic fundamentalism is a side effect, not a cause of a bad root cause that is Russian occupation of a independant state.
Learn some history. Don't just toe the line your government is feeding you. Read.
http://www.hrw.org/campaigns/russia/chechnya/
Posted by: YFND at September 3, 2004 12:47 PM
Stan and Olka,
Thank you so much for the outstanding work you have done here, and are doing. It is much more than a public service, it is the highest traditions of real journalism and a crucial part of the Great Experiment that is America. Spaseba.
Posted by: Laughing Wolf at September 3, 2004 12:48 PM
YFND,
Chechnya had a de facto independence untill August, 1999 when they decided to invade Dagestan.
Now explain what you said as it relates to this fact.
Posted by: Stan at September 3, 2004 12:50 PM
Stan,
Thank you, sir, from the bottom of my heart. This has to have been one of the most imformative and moving posts I have ever read. Those pictures are gut-renching.
Thank you again, the world needs to see this story.
Posted by: Bill Roggio at September 3, 2004 12:54 PM
This coverage is phenomenal. Who are you guys?
oh, and thanks.
Posted by: Syd at September 3, 2004 01:05 PM
I was born and lived in the USSR till my family emigrated to US (NYC) when I was 11. Same goes for Olka, though I am not sure how old she was when she left Russia.
Posted by: Stan at September 3, 2004 01:09 PM
Stan,
I just want to say that I'm sorry for my stupid questions yesterday. As for my post this morning, I just woke up a few hours ago so my info. is much older than yours. I think I'll just leave this to you and Olka, who are doing an absolutely fabulous job in reporting this horrific tragedy.
Posted by: Mark at September 3, 2004 01:30 PM
The updates are showing as September 1st. But they are from today, right?
Posted by: Mark at September 3, 2004 01:32 PM
yup the same thing with me got here when i was 12
i don't know about Stan, but I'm just sitting here reading page after page from different source (just cannot stop)... so translating and sharing what i've read seems only natural... in fact, probably even therapeutic. The accounts of released are heartranching and the details are gruesome and by the looks of things it's probably going to get worst (the number of casualties).
Posted by: olka at September 3, 2004 01:32 PM
Mark, yes. The date is stamped only once - when the post is originally created, it doesn't change when the post is modified.
Posted by: Stan at September 3, 2004 01:39 PM
I translated one hostage's account here
Posted by: Stan at September 3, 2004 01:39 PM
exactly --russian govn't is inadequate when dealing with crisis...that's why people inside were doomed from the very beginning.
Posted by: olka at September 3, 2004 01:53 PM
more pics http://www.gzt.ru/foto/index.gzt?rid=43&pid=535
Posted by: olka at September 3, 2004 01:59 PM
I said from the beginning of this crisis, and this is in no way meant to offend the Russian people, but the United States Special Forces should have been called in. I just didn't think that the Russian Special Forces could handle this situation as they didn't in October 2002 with the Moscow theater hostage situation.
Posted by: Mark at September 3, 2004 02:01 PM
Mark, while your intentions are good, I don't think it would be wise, politically, to put ourselves in a position where we are responsible for over ~1200 hostages.
Posted by: Stan at September 3, 2004 02:04 PM
mark, you're funny, do you honestly think they would allow outsiders to handle it???It's a smart thing to do, but it's not the Russian way i'm having flashbacks to the Kursk tragedy (the submarine that sank a couple of years ago) Europe offered to help, but Russia was too proud. They had 'secrets' to contain... A human life is nothing in that country, govn't proved it time and time again...
Posted by: olka at September 3, 2004 02:06 PM
Some may argue that a human life is nothing in any country, especially when it comes to protecting something bigger.
Posted by: Noofy at September 3, 2004 02:12 PM
Noof, everything's relative, though.
Posted by: Stan at September 3, 2004 02:15 PM
Stan and Olka,
Thankyou for following this and keeping all of us up to date. I know it's alot of hard work, but your work is very much appreciated.
Teresa
Posted by: Teresa at September 3, 2004 02:18 PM
Of course the terrorists will blame the SWAT team!They're Islamists and Islamist barbarians always blame the people they prey on...
Posted by: Nannette at September 3, 2004 02:44 PM
I'm just saying that from what I know, and it's probably not much, that the Russian Special Forces have a very small success rate when it comes to handling hostage situations or any situation for that matter. The U.S. Special Forces are trained better for this kind of stuff and would be able to handle it better. That's just my $0.02.
Posted by: Mark at September 3, 2004 02:58 PM
http://www.utro.ru/topnews.shtml#20040903225138347227sh*t they checking information about another hostage situation in Chermen (another town in the same region)
it's not official yet
Posted by: olka at September 3, 2004 02:58 PM
Mark, I am not disputing the effectiveness of our forces. I am just saying that such an arrengement (them accepting our forces, us willing to take such responsibility) is unlikely.
Posted by: Stan at September 3, 2004 03:02 PM
i'm reading this kavkas site... see you can't fight fire with fire... I would like to symphasize with Chechnya's women and children, but their men are killing their cause by commiting such autrocities...
Posted by: olka at September 3, 2004 03:09 PM
Stan - Thanks for the coverage - it is Awsome.
I pray for the children involved in this as will as their parents. These pictures will be with me the rest of my life.
YFND - I used to have symphathy for Chechnya - that went out the window when the terrorists killed the first kid. Now I have absolutely none at all and refuse to even listen to anything they have to say. Fark em! Nothing justifies this -- nothing!
Posted by: CrazyFool at September 3, 2004 03:13 PM
THIS is why we must elect Kerry for president. He would have taken a more nuanced approach to this. Much like his nuclear plan for Iran, Kerry would ship bullets to the terrorists if they promise not to use them.(sarcasm)
Posted by: Dave at September 3, 2004 03:15 PM
At the beginning of this Putin should have grabbed every Saudi diplomat and cleric in Russia and driven them to the school and tied them to the front of APCs and driven them around. He should have also have sent a message to the leading clerics at Al Azzhar in Cairo and the main mosques and Islamic universities in Saudi Arabia , Iran, and Pakistan - and told them in no uncertain terms that they and their personnel would all have big bulls-eyes on them from now on, unless they stopped the propagation of hatred, stopped the financing for terror, and etc. Unfortunately Mr. Putin, who has been willing to point his finger at the Saudis and the others in previous terror incidents, Mr. Putin did not act quickly enough this time. The terrorists in that school were following the Islamist agenda of a greater Pan Islamic state, an "umma" as per what Osama wants, a resurrection of what the "caliphate" allegedly held back in 1400 AD at the height of Islamic expansion. The only way to deal with people in this mindset is to go their leaders (the clerics at Al Azhar, in Tehran, Qom, Saudi Arabia, and Pakistan) and in Harry Truman's words, promise them a "rain of ruin such as the world has never seen."
Posted by: My 2 cents at September 3, 2004 03:25 PM
When I think about what probably happened to the rebels that were caught by the civilians I get a happy smile and chuckle softly to myself.
For the terrorists captured alive by the Russian authorities I suggest drowning in pig urine and burying their bodies in a pig sty as an appropriate disposal tactic.
No virgins for these polluted bad boys and girls.
Don't forget the video, their friends in Chechnya need to know how their heros were treated.
John b.
Posted by: jbouler at September 3, 2004 03:30 PM
Now that the day is over, I am still going to say that the Russians did not storm in. They left phones near the doors and a terrorist came out holding a kid and took the phones. They knew about the 20 deaths so it was suggested that an ambulance crew come in to remove the bodies. The terrorists agreed but no one knew it was a set up. When the ambulance arrived, bombs started to go off and kids, along with some adults, got scared and ran like hell out of there. As they were running, the terrorists started shooting the fleeing kids. The Russians then started shooting at the terrorists to protect the fleeing 400 people - kids. Then a bomb went off in the gym and the roof caved in and was on fire and over 100 people, mostly kids, were killed and burned by the fire while outside, parents, police, neighbors were trying to get in to help when bombs started going off, they were being shot at, rocket propelled and hand thrown grenades were being thrown at the people so they could not help anyone inside the school and to kill as many of the people outside that they could. It will be some time before the total count will be known. Right now they estimate 150 dead (mostly children), 450 hospitalized (mostly children), some critical, also mostly children.
They were Checkyn rebels with Arab Mercenaries. an Islamic connection here? But what happened there today .... I can't even come up with a word for it. They killed children, they tried to kill more children. They destroyed families and neighborhoods. There was no way these people were going to negotiate anything. And people died long before anyone knew people died at all thinking they were just hostages. There were traps all over the school property and inside that the rebel/terrorist could set off from the inside any time they wanted and they did just that. It was smart to put a slew of psychologists there for the parents because they are going to need them and so will any of the surviving children or traumatized adults.
Like all terrorists, this was an act of such evil that it is uncomprehendable. Right now and tomorrow, the police and Russian forces will try to safely remove any bombs left over (land mines, et al) and bring the bodies out. It will be a long, hard search and an agonizing time for all these people, especially the parents. Now we know why they refused water and food for the kids. If any one of these f**king rebels/terrorists got away, I hope they are found fast and dealt with swiftly.
My heart and my prayers go out to all the victims of terrorism and right now to the parents of these children on their first day of school (Sept 1st). It will be days before we know the amount of dead people (children).~Cindy
Posted by: firstbrokenangel at September 3, 2004 04:22 PM
Thanks for the yeoman duty, Stan.
I hope that you'll keep an eye on the aftermath of this tragedy. I know it's your sources, not you, but it seems we get more questions than answers. Hopefully, we'll get a clearer picture of who these terrorists are/were and what the sequence of events was. Thanks again.
Posted by: Clay at September 3, 2004 04:25 PM
It's been heartbreaking and I really can feel for the parents who must be feeling so distraught and in a state of shock. May God bless all the victims of this senseless atrocity... and give them the strength to carry on.
Russia should now declare the 1st September a national memorial day in memory of what's happened - it really is Russia's 9/11.
Posted by: Nannette at September 3, 2004 04:31 PM
firstbrokenangel,
They were Checkyn rebels with Arab Mercenaries. an Islamic connection here?
Chechens are muslims, and Basayev is a Wahabbi (same as Osama).
Posted by: Stan at September 3, 2004 04:38 PM
cindy sumed it up pretty good...
nanette, but how sad that one of the most festive holidays in russia has to become a memorial day!
p.s. # of casualties grew to 200
Posted by: olka at September 3, 2004 04:41 PM
The pictures of the aftermath of the Ossetia school seige were two minutes of headline news for the 12:00pm local Houston Texas news shows. I checked the local CBS and ABC affiliates and they both had the story.
Whether or not the American network news shows run it, the local stations have aleady done so as has Fox News Channel.
Posted by: Trent Telenko at September 3, 2004 05:13 PM
Stan, thanks for the reporting. God bless all.The images of those little children are heart wrenching
ITAR-TASS is reporting "there is information that Abu Omar As-Seif, a Wahhabi ideologist, sponsored the hostage crisis in Beslan. He is a representative of Al Qaeda in Chechnya in charge of distribution of foreign donations to terrorists."
Al-Seif took over al-Qaida's Chechnya operations from Abu Walid al-Ghamdi after al-Ghamdi was killed earlier this year. al-Ghamdi succeeded Ibn Khattab after Khattab was poisoned in April 2002.
Profile of Abu Omar al-Seif here.
Posted by: Robert Stevens at September 3, 2004 05:15 PM
What kind of a place is this (Beslan) that neighbors can just show up with Kalashnikovs and start shooting at the terrorists along with the authorities? Is there no rule of law in this place?
I was also stricken by the picture of the cig-smoking rescuer with a bloody child in his arms. What a place.
Posted by: John-Paul Pagano at September 3, 2004 05:17 PM
Can't be bothered to provide a verbatim translationof the following (01:07 pm):
http://www.gazeta.ru/2004/09/04/last132342.shtml
where the number of killed is reported as EXCEEDINGtwo hundred. I am afraid it is going to grow.
Posted by: sasha at September 3, 2004 05:20 PM
John-Paul that region is highly unstable (right by Chechnya) . It is not uncommon for civilians to own riffles and guns for protection (if you think about it most Texans own guns)yeah the sigarette in the mouth i also noticed, it does look strange when you're sitting at home (work) in comfort, but those people were under tremendous stress for the past 3 days, most stayed up and around the area... the town is small so everyone had someone they knew at that school
Posted by: olka at September 3, 2004 05:22 PM
Is there confirmation that the terrorists were Chechens (as well as Arabs)? I am trying to determine whether this is a pan-Caucasian Muslim effort or more tightly related to the Chechen conflict. Yes, the Global Jihad factor is indisputable, but I wonder if the Osamites have corralled the support of Ossetian Muslims and Dagestanis and others as well as some Chechens.
Posted by: John-Paul Pagano at September 3, 2004 05:23 PM
Sasha,
I suspected this would happen. Just like the theater siege when the actual number of the dead was far, far higher then the first official numbers released.
Posted by: Stan at September 3, 2004 05:24 PM
Rise up Russians! Defend your lives and your children. Kerrys appeasement will bring these scenes to Americas suburbs. Exterminate Arab Terrorism.
Posted by: strana agromnaya at September 3, 2004 05:25 PM
Olka,
I'm not surprised that people there own guns; as you say, many people across the world own guns. What surprises me is that the authorities either allow or can't stop Beslan locals from showing up and joining the firefight as third-party vigilantes.
And hey, I like smoking (although I quit). I wasn't judging the guy. It's just surreal.
Posted by: John-Paul Pagano at September 3, 2004 05:26 PM
Also, not sure if this has been widely noted, but it seems like there is one hell of a lot of ordnance planted on or about the school. Also, what about the car bomb that went off nearby? This sounds much bigger than people might realize.
Posted by: John-Paul Pagano at September 3, 2004 05:28 PM
John paul, i know you weren't judging it's just an extra ordinary situation so basic rules don't apply here i guess...
re the 'hostage-takers' the only demand they had was for russia to pull out troops from chechnya (that's what one of the russian news agencies said) most were chechen, there were a number of arabs and others (multinational) terrorist groups in that region have and are financed by al-Qaida (read Robert Stevens comment above)
adn the whole situation was sooo much bigger russian govn't as usual down played it
Posted by: olka at September 3, 2004 05:37 PM
John-Paul,
I am quite surprised by your comment. Beslan is a tiny town and everybody knows everybody in those places. I guess almost every person from those whostayed around in the school for all this time wasa relative or a good friend of someone inside. BTW, this is Caucasus where the code of honour demands to protect your own people and arriving at the scene armed is only normal. As for their behaviour during the siege, just image hundreds of children (your or your brother's children) escaping (and being shot at) and you standing there doing nothing. This might happen in Europe but simplycan't happen in Ossetia.I guess it's quite an inappropriate time to lecture on the nations of Caucasus and their culture.
Posted by: sasha at September 3, 2004 05:38 PM
John-Paul Pagano,
About the "car bomb": It was not a car bomb, it was the "freedom fighters" being bored and perfectingtheir RPG skills shooting at the nearby councilestate house and the car.
Posted by: sasha at September 3, 2004 05:42 PM
I KNOW that, Stan. I was being facetious.
Thank you Olka, the number will continue to grow as the night and tomorrow wears on.
I'm sure we'll find out from what district the CHECKYN REBELS/TERRORISTS are from very soon; two did give up finally. But it has also been the Checkyn's who blew up the planes, blew up the subway in Moscow and today, two other Checkyn women were thrown off planes.
I received an email from someone over there who was thanking me for my early morning post, noting the Russians did not storm in the building, et al, so I repeated it, because she said that people always sympathize with the Checkyns when it's the Checkyn's causing the problems, not the Russians. The Russians didn't do anything to cause this or the other tragedies recently or even that theatre bit. I do not believe Ossetta was involved in this at all. I also know where there are pictures of Checkyn rebels torturing and beheading Russian soldiers. Wrong is wrong and right is right and these people are wrong and anyone who says the Russians stormed into that building is definitely wrong.
~Cindy
Posted by: firstbrokenangel at September 3, 2004 05:43 PM
John-Paul Pagano,
Actually, as I have translated earlier -
"Head of the North Osetian parliament asked the civilian population to organize itself into groups and patrol the town looking for the escaping terrorists. "
Posted by: Stan at September 3, 2004 05:47 PM
Sasha,
I'm not lecturing anyone. (Why is this the second time this has been imputed or charged?)
What I'm after is context, which you have begun to provide, and for which I am grateful. People outside of Russia and Caucasia know little or nothing about this region and its people. The biased and ignorant prism of our media (e.g., Reuters) is no help.
Your mention of the Caucasian honor code goes some of the distance toward answering my question. But if terrorists showed up at my mother's house and threatened to kill her, and my friends and I crashed the party with AKs, the NYPD would kill us. Can you or others comment on why the Russian soldiers in Beslan would not feel threatened by the pandemonium caused by third-party vigilantes? And are there other salient details?
Thanks.
Posted by: John-Paul Pagano at September 3, 2004 05:54 PM
Stan, thanks. Wow, what a mess that promises. Can you give some background on the integrity of the media you are translating? I expect that Russian media isn't all that great.
Posted by: John-Paul Pagano at September 3, 2004 05:56 PM
Sasha,
Thanks for the info on the RPG.
Posted by: John-Paul Pagano at September 3, 2004 06:00 PM
John-Paul, I think you misunderstood me. I was trying to say that any attempt (by me) to provide more information about Caucasus is simply not appropriate now. And anyway, I am no position tolecture anyone (I am neither a specialist nor an eloquent writer). I haven't been there since the beginning of 80s. The Caucaus I remember was different. And then Nagorny-Karabakh "conflict" (call it slaughter) came, and then Baku. The list could be easily continued...
Posted by: sasha at September 3, 2004 06:10 PM
Sasha,
I see, my bad. I don't understand why you feel that sharing your experience, however dilute, would amount to lecturing or an offense, but thank you for what you provided.
Posted by: John-Paul Pagano at September 3, 2004 06:14 PM
John-Paul,
You've just demonstrated that there are different cultures even in the US. I'm in SW Florida. If something like that happened here and the people went hunting the terrorists, the police would either suffer an attack of blindness or join us. They might make a public statement of disapproval but they wouldn't make any attempt to stop us.
What these terrorists did is so 'over the top' by our standards that I suspect you may also be underestimating the NYPD.
Posted by: Kathy K at September 3, 2004 06:24 PM
John-Paul,
I just feel that there is no point in explainingthe peculiarities of that part of the world, theworld which I am not an expert on. Undoubtely,there would be other people who can do it muchbetter than me. More importantly, I don't wantto commit the fallacy of over-generalisation andmake sweeping statements (which sadly happensjust too often by the Western media) about places like Ossetia or Dagestan. All I can say, is that Ossetia has been (in my memory) relatively quiet whereas Dagestan is an amazingly sensitive place, being a melting pot of nations on its own. And then there is Chechnya... If anything happens inDagestan it would be really worrying. In general,anarchy in the North Caucasus (some of which we have been witnessing since the collapse of USSR)would be disastrous both for Russia and for theneighbouring countries - especially Georgia, Armenia and Azerbadjan.
Posted by: sasha at September 3, 2004 06:30 PM
Sadly enough, the region is in such a mess already that it's diffult to image how to undo the damage.
Posted by: sasha at September 3, 2004 06:34 PM
Read a detailed account and history of Chechens, Russia/vz/Chechnya here. Very detailed, up to date, and interesting from a site that knows it's stuff.
http://www.strategypage.com//fyeo/qndguide/default.asp?target=russia.htm&base=russia&Prev=0&BeginCnt=0
Best Regards, PatriotsMSGT Ron Dutchmore, USA,(ret)
Posted by: Ron_Dutchmore at September 3, 2004 06:41 PM
Kathy,
I may well be. And I hope you are right.
Posted by: John-Paul Pagano at September 3, 2004 06:42 PM
John-Paul Pagano,
You may wonder about the integrity of the Russian media, but one of our (UK) ITV news team was there and actually filmed the events as they were happening... the Russian media have it right... the terrorists actually attacked first.
One of the terrorists blew herself up in the same room as the little children, while they were surrounded by bombs on the floor and bombs suspended from the ceiling!
As far as the lynchings go... I think that once the Spetznaz get hold of the terrorists, they're wish they were in the hands of the lynch mobs!
Posted by: Nannette at September 3, 2004 06:58 PM
Nomination for Pulitzer prize for photography to the cameraman who took the picture of the soldier carrying the baby. Nothing like that since WWII. Pictures displayed in the media in the U.S. are much too sanitized to show the true horror of an event such as this.
Posted by: Rich at September 3, 2004 06:59 PM
John-Paul Pagano, Sasha,
I only post from reliable sources, and if you check the info on this page you'll see that everything is accurate.
Posted by: Stan LS at September 3, 2004 07:15 PM
Stan,
Your sources are more than reliable, because a friend of mine in the media has been keeping track of developments from your site since I told him about it...
Posted by: Nannette at September 3, 2004 07:18 PM
http://www.livejournal.com/users/shurigin/10765.html description of events from an eye witness (In Russian)
Posted by: Rygor at September 3, 2004 07:19 PM
http://us.news2.yimg.com/us.yimg.com/p/ap/20040903/capt.mosb12609031702.russia_school_seizure_mosb126.jpg
Posted by: Rygor at September 3, 2004 07:29 PM
Guys and Gals, why are you arguing and nitpicking? What happened is a horrible, really horrible tragedy. Some one did something wrong to another; it's really that simple.
But as far as Islam goes, it's not that simple for them; they are terrorists. Don't argue - hold hands and do what you can to make sure it does not happen again - as united peoples of the globe.~Cindy
Posted by: firstbrokenangel at September 3, 2004 07:34 PM
Rygor, yea I posted that photo before. Pretty powerfull.
Posted by: Stan LS at September 3, 2004 07:39 PM
2nd Amendment - We The People are the Militia. When there is a big, off-the-hook crisis like this that is waaay beyond just a simple "Police Matter," it is appropriate for The People to ably respond in defense of their neighbors' lives, children, and livelihoods. Yes, in LA or Fresno the Cops would probably tell everyone to put down their arms and go home - or they might deputize a few of them. As far as it goes, Ossetia has a pretty ~remarkable~ history:http://www.exile.ru/196/war_nerd.html
Posted by: -keith in mtn. view at September 3, 2004 07:51 PM
Cindy,
You're so right... if the world unites against these terrorists and acknowleges them for what they are then they can't ever win!
Posted by: Nannette at September 3, 2004 08:01 PM
I am from Oklahoma. I lived in Oklahoma City on the day of the Murray building bombing. Although we had no warning of the impending doom that touched every one's lives in this community, it was nonetheless devestating. I am sure there are many from New York and DC that feel the way I do. As someone who experienced the horror of terrorism so closely I can truly empathize with the poor people of Beslan. My heart is ripped in two thinking of the children, as I did on that fatefull day in April not so long ago. I can hear the cries of the Mothers and Fathers screaming in my mind. It is horrible and should not have happened. These people who called themselves believers in Islam are Demons from the darkest pits of hell. They shall not have any reward in heaven or anywhere else for that matter. They will burn and be joining their demon brothers and sisteres where they belong. I hope that everyone in the USA who is reading this will make an effort to mobilize their communities as I will to provide some kind of relief for these poor people. Talk to your local area Red Cross and find out what can be done. Bug the hell out of your local media outlets. Do not let these people suffer in isolation. When we were torn by terrorism three years ago, the World wept with us and for us. They reached out their hands in sympathy and comfort. We must reciprocate and offer the same to the citizens of Beslan. May God rest the souls of those departed.
Posted by: Frank Friel at September 3, 2004 08:13 PM
Sorry, could not resist. Eric, you're an idiot. John-Paul if you read earlier posts and earlier sites where I somehow found myself to be before coming here, that car bomb was not a car bomb. It was a car that got too close to the school so they "practiced their RPG" shots on it. These people were prepared, too well prepared. They had that entire property, inside and out, boobytrapped. I certainly did not mind helping and keeping track, even when you went to bed, Stan, because at that time all hell broke loose. I can't find some of my other posts so they must be on another site (wolf's?) and somehow the url changed and I posted before you woke up. I don't know who said this was "Bush's war" but that is a really stupid comment. This is a global war. The reason the Russians were not in Iraq was because Putin had his hands filled with Checknya and a perilous peace with Ossetta in Georgia. These were terrorist muslims doing what they do - terrorize and God damn it, I hope every person who did this and other terrorist acts around the world, including Iraq burns in Hell forever. Get rid of the religion of Islam, you will get rid of the terrorists. How Checknya soldiers torture and kill Russian soldiers is no different than what is happening in Iraq when they behead someone. I've seen both. I stay on top of everything so that I will not be ignorant of what is going on in our world. It should not take this kind of event to bring us together. The only way we can wipe these people out is by being offensive. If Kerry was in office, we'd be suffering the same fate, I am so sorry to say. I followed this like I follow everything else - so that everyone knows what's going on and then I sum it up and I think I did a pretty good job of it. If I was there, I'd do better but that's the one thing I can't do. I do the best I can to bring it to others accurately, not necessarily what mainstream media says or does not say because I think these things are important. What I will never understand is why a school? But who can understand any reasonings of these people? Terrorists are global and it will take every person, every country, to end it.
We shall see what tomorrow brings. It will not be pretty. Some amazing pictures there Olka and Stan, when you're asleep, I'll stay awake. :-) deal? :-) Just trying to ease the tension in my face - sometimes you just have to walk away from it for awhile and this place should really be called Illogical and Insanity. :-) Thank you Wolf, for sending me over here from your place.
Try to have a good evening everyone wherever you may be and say a prayer for the parents of the children who won't be coming home from school. Their souls are already in heaven, it's the ones who are left behind who need the support now.
And the person who is to blame for all this? The terrorists, of course. If Russia needs help from the United States, you all know he'll get it. But that's not the point. Blogging is the way for news now, making it accurate is up to us and ending this horrific events is also up to each and every one of us and our countries.
Amen.
~Cindy
Posted by: firstbrokenangel at September 3, 2004 08:32 PM
and I will repeat what Nannette said:
"Cindy,
You're so right... if the world unites against these terrorists and acknowleges them for what they are then they can't ever win!
Posted by: Nannette at September 3, 2004 08:01 PM"
Nite all. God Bless.
Posted by: firstbrokenangel at September 3, 2004 08:39 PM
My prayers and thoughts are with the families that went throught this horrible situation. My God I have two children and can't imagine the terror they are going through. I wish death and torment unending to those responsible.
Posted by: Mithglin at September 3, 2004 09:02 PM
Terrorists are global and it will take every person, every country, to end it.Hopefully, the world sees the truth and beyond the veil of illusion now... they always wake up when children are involved... and we can and most unite and fight these barbaric terrorists. Each and every one of us must take responsibility for the future of the world we live in.
... say a prayer for the parents of the children who won't be coming home from school. Their souls are already in heaven, it's the ones who are left behind who need the support now.Amen... may God give them all the strength to carry on...
Posted by: Nannette at September 3, 2004 09:38 PM
Fund for Beslan’s Childrenhttp://www.moscowhelp.org/
Posted by: Nannette at September 3, 2004 09:40 PM
Someone wrote ...the world sees the truth and beyond the veil of illusion now... they always wake up when children are involved...
Huh? These same Islamic F^*k-wads have been blowing up Israeli children for 20 years... I haven't seen the "world" wake up yet...
Don't hold your breath!
JM
Posted by: jmeyer at September 4, 2004 12:04 AM
Hey JM - you just HAD to ruin a good ending to a terrible, horrific day, didn't ya?
Geez, I wanted to say "very cool and very classy" to Nannette until you opened your big mouth. Read much?? Maybe you should try - start at The Laughing Wolf then hop over here and you'll find the whole story right there for you to inhale and say "sorry."
For once, can we be positive?
~Cindy
Posted by: firstbrokenangel at September 4, 2004 12:13 AM
Cindy,
This horrific tragedy has no room for your idea in: "Get rid of the religion of Islam, you will get rid of the terrorists."
I am ardently non-religious. I believe in peace, freedom, hard work, ingenuity in number, well-meaning nature of mankind, and happiness among many other ideas that I believe keep America and other nations strong.
Terrorism is NOT a fact of Islam, it is a fact of mankind and throughout history, Islam or not, it occurs and will always occur. Study the history of terrorism from the Christian Catholic Crusades to Nazi Germany Fascists. Terrorism is a fact of life and your will to destroy another's religion makes that ever so.
Fighting terrorism and and other horrific civil injustices requires not only military power, but every power given to mankind. This includes reason. Now find some.
-- The Idiot
Posted by: Eric at September 4, 2004 12:39 AM
Fund for Beslan’s Childrenhttp://www.moscowhelp.org/
Posted by: Eric at September 4, 2004 12:44 AM
I've been a cop for 17 years, and none of us here have ever had to deal with anything like this situation. It is overwhelming. I can't fathom being one of the officers who was initially there and trying to figure out what to do. The terrorists obviously studied long and hard to make their mission "successful." They had plenty of ammo, knew the layout of the school, had human bombs, brought dogs with them, rigged the yard and interior of the building with explosives, probably had gas masks, rehearsed and planned... but most importantly, they believed in what they were doing and committed themselves to that by killing people as soon as they began. I'm sure they knew after killing the first person that they were not coming out alive. And they DO NOT CARE. They are not disturbed at all by the prospect of losing their lives, and in fact believe it is necessary. That is what makes the Islamic Fundamentalist-terrorists so different from you and I, and so damned dangerous. They welcome death - how do you combat that? How do you rescue children being held up as shields by people with such a brainwashed mindset? It is a phenominally difficult or impossible task. And how do you change the brainwashed? Someone here indicated that the presence of Islamic Fundamentalist-terrorists in the region was a symptom rather than a cause. I agree. People who are happy, healthy, prospering, and have stable homes don't fall into those beliefs. The beliefs of these terrorists are borne of some kind of desperation, perhaps - but it isn't occurring because things are going so well in their lives. It's all so complicated. And in the meantime, children are dying and people in far-removed places like the U.S. (where I am) are struggling to even begin to understand how anyone could do this at a school, or fly planes into towers, or hijack planes full of civilians, or board bombs armed with bombs.... So much to think about. Thanks again, Stan~
Posted by: mournlight at September 4, 2004 12:55 AM
Nannette,
Thank you for the link to the children's fund, I have just made my donation. I feel like that's not enough. Does anyone know where the majority of these children are hospitalized? I know this may not help out a whole lot but, I'd like to figure out a way to send out some Teddy Bears to these little angels -to let them know that the world does care and, if nothing more, to attempt to place a smile on their angelic little faces.
Posted by: Susie Q at September 4, 2004 12:56 AM
Any comment on this:
"One of them - reporter of Utro.ru - posted and then deleted his post:
We are investigating how it begun:The order to storm the school was given before the explosion, explosion was deployed by special forces itself to enter the gym, it was coordinated with rescue stuff which approaching the school to evacuate dead bodies.2 men from special forces were killed, many injured."
From www.russpundit.com
Posted by: beowulf at September 4, 2004 01:04 AM
Keep strong in faith Russia as the civilise World wont to say...."Lets unite and get these satanic people". Cheers from Australia...Russia.
Posted by: Graham at September 4, 2004 01:53 AM
Terrorist is such an overused word. These twisted fucks are murderers.
Watching the events in the ME recently makes my blood boil when the news agencies report that hostages have been "executed" ... that is SUCH a misnomer. Execution is usually a term meaning a termination of a life via a judicial process, regardless of whether it is a kangaroo court or not - at least it's a process.
People being beheaded or shot like those 12 Nepalese guys were MURDERED by MURDERERS. ... lets NOT impart ANY kind of courtesy to them by calling their actions EXECUTIONS.
In the case of these losers that took over this school, my feelings are they knew it wouldn't work, they knew they would die there. I bet AQ sent them in to do their vile deeds in order to further fan the anti-Islamic flames and start that war between the Muslims and West that they have been itching for.
Lets not cave in to their sickj and twisted aims.
But I sure hope the Russion government , once they are done with those captured militants, release them to the parents and let them tear the fuckers apart.
I hope all terrorists and murderous fucks die screaming.
Posted by: Grog at September 4, 2004 03:29 AM
Cindy wrote: " Hey JM - you just HAD to ruin a good ending to a terrible, horrific day, didn't ya?
Geez, I wanted to say "very cool and very classy" to Nannette until you opened your big mouth. Read much??
JM... Yes Ma'am... As much as you I'd reckon, but not the same sources, it seems.
Maybe you should try - start at The Laughing Wolf then hop over here and you'll find the whole story right there for you to inhale and say "sorry."
JM... To whom? You? ...or to the Asslamic F^*K-Wads that murder Israeli and Russian kids? I seem to be missing your point here?
For once, can we be positive?
JM... "For once..." ??? It's the first time I've been here...
Posted by: jmeyer at September 4, 2004 04:23 AM
It was mentioned earlier in this thread that the "Islamofascists" had been brainwashed. That is almost certainly true, but they are not alone - many people on the "other side" have also been willingly brainwashed, especially in the GOP. But in the midst of all this bickering over half-baked ideologies and puffed-up attempts to come up with "macho" solutions, the fact is that 200 little children have been deliberately murdered in this outrage. Russia has again been attacked by an outside perversion, and make no mistake, these Islamic types are as twisted and perverted as ever the Nazis were. It is a great tragedy that the West succeded in destroying the socialist Soviet Union. It wasn't perfect by a long way, but it was, in the end, a safe pair of hands. Religion, that corrosive process that gets in the way of God rather than anything else, was kept at a low priority. Now thanks to "revered" entities such as Reagan and Wojtyla et al, it is gone and we now live in a unipolar world where the USA and Al-Qaeda vie with each other for carrying out the biggest, most outrageous barbarism. And the followers on both sides bay the obscenities of their brainwashing. On the one hand, we hear about militant Islam and on the other about a so-called war on terror. Both are disgusting. Now 200 little children have perished.Will sanity now come to the fore or is mankind due to plumb yet new depths of depravity in what seems to be a helkl-bent desire to self-destruct.
Posted by: brenzone at September 4, 2004 06:52 AM
Eric,
Maybe you should look at the rise of Wahhabism and Salafism... and ascertain their goals, one of which is the global caliphate as predicted in the koran.
As for the muhajideen leading miserable lives... get off that track - we've had plenty of suicide bombers that have come from the UK and have had happy lives. It's their religion that demands death, not Islam of the 21st century) but Salafist and Wahhabist Islam... demand blood sacrifice to an incomprehensible and evil deity.
Then you'll see what true Islam demands.
Under the auspices of both these sects, every other Muslim is considered apostate and therefore infidel.
Posted by: Nannette at September 4, 2004 06:55 AM
Brenzone,
...these Islamic types are as twisted and perverted as ever the Nazis were.
Actually the Islamists are worse than Nazis, even though they're both fascist ideologies... their doctrine is that they are so vastly superior to any other life form on the planet that infidel come well below their level and we don't even have the value of dogs.
That's why they have no problem killing any of us.
Maybe if you read the koran, mostly it's in the second part, where Mohammed goes from being a religious leader to warrior and conqueror, you'll understand more. The second part is pretty warlike - but the Salafists have shortened the first part of the koran so their interpretation is about warfare.
Posted by: Nannette at September 4, 2004 07:16 AM
brenzone,
I think your post was the dimmest here.
so-called war on terror
If anything, the taking of the whole school hostages have shown that the war on terror is real. We have real targets - people like Basayev, Osama, and their sponsors.
USA and Al-Qaeda vie with each other for carrying out the biggest, most outrageous barbarism
If you think that the actions of US' in anyway contend with 9/11, taking over a 1,000+ people hostages and setting off booby traps in their midst, blowing up buses, etc., then your moral compass is out of wack.
I'll also note, that none of the so called human shields, who were so quick to fly to Iraq to supposedly protect Iraqi civilians, offered to fly to Besnan and "live shield" the hostages.
I guess Osetian children are just not good enough for them.
Posted by: Stan LS at September 4, 2004 09:22 AM
The human shields will only go where it's relatively safe, so they went to Iraq and left just before the war started.
Also, the big organisations who sponsor these human shields are Islamic organisations, so don't care about going to protect "infidels" like us, otherwise we'd have seen human shields riding busses in Israel, going to the Russian border towns, etc...
They also like to protect the "big" names of terrorism, like Saddam, Yasser Arafat, Osama Bin Laden, etc... and if there's no human shields, then the terrorists pick up children to use as shields.
These terrorists have no morality, conscience, nor humanity... after all, just see the way Muslims are killing Muslims all over Africa and no-one says a word...
Posted by: Stan at September 4, 2004 11:02 AM
To give credit where credit is due. Local Muslims asked the police if they could go to the school and take the place of the hostages, but were denied for fear the would be attacked showing up in their Muslim dress.Got this from the comments of the Mesopotamian:http://messopotamian.blogspot.com/
This is from this morning's WA Post:
When a group of Muslims from [nearby]villages decided to offer themselves as hostages in exchange for the students Thursday, officials discouraged them from coming to Beslan to present their proposal for fear of stirring violence. "We told them it's too dangerous," said Yuri Sidakov, head of the region's human rights commission. "They would dress in Muslim clothes and it might provoke a reaction."
Muslims are parents too. They are as outraged as we are. They need to do more to somehow take back their religion from this evil. For that is what it is. How many hear heard of the Muslim anti Sadr protests in Najaf? Nothing on the news....I think biased news reporting is part of the problem. Don't have a solution other then Iraq and moderate Islam hiring a PR department to raise awareness and show the world they do NOT support these actions.
Posted by: Matt S. at September 4, 2004 12:28 PM
Geesh! Some people just always stay ignorant.~C
Posted by: firstbrokenangel at September 4, 2004 12:54 PM
New updates are being posted here.
Posted by: Stan LS at September 4, 2004 01:41 PM
Hey, what you testing, Stan? I hope you don't mind if I become a regular here, reading, posting, et al?
Actually hat tip should go to Nanette for the moscowhelp site.
Keep up the good work.
~Cindy
Posted by: firstbrokenangel at September 4, 2004 03:14 PM
Cindy, my updates weren't showing up. Came out my browser was caching thet old page. Cleared the cache, so that's all fixed now. Sure, everybody is welcome to frequent this blog.
I am going to keep updating here
I'ld also like to thank everyone for seeking out information and shedding tears for the unfortunate victims. I know I'll definately never forget this.
This has been quite an experience for me. I was glued to the screen, had a dozen of windows open on my desktop, translated as fast as I could while making a ton of grammatical/spelling errors. Took lunches at my desk and missed a deadline at work, because I just had to get the information out. For example, the fact that there were 1,000+ hostages (not ~350 as officials claim) was reported here several hours before the mass media picked up on it.
I just felt like I had to do something to help, and, from all the way in NYC, this was all that I could do.
Posted by: Stan LS at September 4, 2004 03:32 PM
Stan! Please forgive me for posting my message regarding dope altering people's thought processes in this thread. It was supposed to go in the NY street protests thread. Please delete it so I can show my face in public again.
Geez! I feel like such an ass.
Posted by: Allan at September 4, 2004 04:26 PM
This world, I believe, is going down the tubes. As many wonderful people there are out there, we still have these bastard terrorists and such who have apparently lost their minds. These people aren't mean, or evil. They are mentally ill, I suggest somekind of psychiatric treatment. I don't understand how you can lay your head down peacefully at night knowing you've killed innocent people all for some evil demented cause. Do they even know what they are doing? No, they must not, and God help them, because when they meet their Maker, they better have a damn good excuse for what they've done. Killing innocent people all to get your way and create chaos. Have those assholes look into the eyes of a mother who's child they just killed. But I doubt they would feel anything. They are numb to any kind of emotion or pity. As evil as they are, I still don't think we should kill them. May the Holy Spirit be with them when they face the Lord, because I don't think God will have any pity on them killing his children because they wanted evil people released into the world to do more harm. Damn those people, damn them for taking our babies away!
Posted by: Susanna at September 4, 2004 05:10 PM
This is sick...
but those crazy terrorists have gone crazy because we do nothing about the massacres in Chechneya.. they are victims of Russian war criminals too...
lets wake up..
mike
Posted by: mike at September 4, 2004 05:16 PM
Mike, Chechnya had de facto independence after the first conflict with Russia. Then in 1999 Basayev tried to annex Dagestan and create an Islamic state in the middle of Caucus. Dagestanis got pissed and Russia did (Dagestan is part of Russia), too.The blame for the war lays with Basayev. The blame for the acts of terror lays with the terrorrists.
Posted by: Stan LS at September 4, 2004 05:35 PM
I'm only 13 but reading and seeing things like this make me sick. They didn't have to get the children involved with this. The kids didn't do anything to them so why bring them into it. I can't imagine what goes on in these terrorists minds. It makes me sick. What would make someone want to choose this way of life, what could make you want to take the lives of innocent little children. They say they have their reasons but they dont understand that killing someone else's kid wont bring back theirs.These people , no they dont deserve to be called a person these things are truly pathetic and disgusting killing children makes them laugh and that right there makes them absolutely sick. I wish I could've helped. I wish terrorists didn't exist but in reality they do and everyone has to deal. I also try to understand why god would take such young lives and so many and hurt so many people and familes, but I can't, has he made a mistake, what could be the reason for this massacre?
Posted by: Darryll at September 4, 2004 05:41 PM
I heard a BBC reporter last night refer to the death toll as "collateral damage," which is the military term for harms that a combatant does not mean to inflict. Logically, this usage implies that the BBC was blaming the Russian troops for the children's deaths. Children shot in the back are not "collateral damage." They are murder victims.
Posted by: Alec Rawls at September 4, 2004 05:44 PM
Here's how Brezhnev would have handled it:
1. find out to whom cel phone calls are made;2. Call that person and tell them unless the children are release, [insert city here] will be cauterize from the earth.
Do'nt you think the mastermind/handler would have told the terrorists back off? Of course they would.
Posted by: freddie at September 4, 2004 06:36 PM
As I viewed the pictures from Beslan,I was reminded of the horrific pictures from 9/11/2001 in NY City. I was also struck by the irony that both events occurred in the month of September.
We refer to these butchers as 'rebels','militia','insurgents',and 'terrorists' but these terms belie what they really are: Muslim Soldiers dedicated to Jihad against all who do not conform to their Islamic religion.
They cite verses from the Quran, their 'holy book' to justify the slaughter of innocent children in the name of their God - 'Allah'. They have murdered and mutilated thousands in the US, in Iraq, in the Sudan, in Spain, in Bali, in Malaysia, in Russia. And yet, we can't seem to "connect the dots" to call them by their real name - Islamic Jihadists.
What kind of outrage do these monsters have to commit before the entire world finally realizes that it must unite to defeat them? What kind of pictures do we need to see before this happens?
I ask you to seriously consider whether the SOURCE of these atrocities is a "radical interpretation" of the Quran, or an "honest and dedicated adherence" to its teachings. The solution to "terrorism" depends on the answer to this question.
Posted by: LenP at September 4, 2004 09:23 PM
Stan:I realize it has been a long time since you lived in Russia (or nearby), but perhaps you can answer a few questions. I made a small donation to the fund for the Beslan children. I noticed that the dispursements for the theater incident often only gave each family a few hundred dollars. Does one hundred dollars in the Beslan area go a lot further than here? Is there a better way to make a difference from this far? Is money the best help we can provide? I guess it just seems like such a small thing to do. Nothing can undo the horrific damage that was done to those families...thanks....
Posted by: mournlight at September 4, 2004 10:56 PM
mournlight,
Actually, I was in Moscow for 2.5 weeks in June. Moscow is the most expensive city in Russia, so yea, the $ will go a lot further in Beslan then in Moscow. To put things in context, the salary of a traffic cop (my friend is one) in Moscow is $180. The official salary, anyway, they make a lot more from bribes, but you get the drift. I'ld imagine that the average monthly salary in Beslan is probably around $100. Yea, I'ld think that money would be the best way to help them, right now.
Posted by: Stan LS at September 4, 2004 11:10 PM
I'm not sure if this is the proper place for me to post this--but its what came up on my google search...My heart and prayers go out to all the families of Beslan and Russia who have been victimized by this. I can only hold my children a little bit tighter this evening. I would like to know how to do more...show more support like there was after 9/11 for those of us in the U.S.--they are on par for me, most especially because this attack was aimed at the innocents, and is a crime against all that is good in this world--our children. If you can give me direction on where I can send a donation, I would very much appreciate it. Thank you!
Posted by: Michelle at September 5, 2004 02:35 AM
LenP
"They have murdered and mutilated thousands in the US, in Iraq, in the Sudan, in Spain, in Bali, in Malaysia, in Russia. And yet, we can't seem to "connect the dots" to call them by their real name - Islamic Jihadists."
Any reason you left out Israel where the most innocents have been murdered - relatively, much more than 9/11??
Why doesn't the world wake up and see who's the cause of all this terror? The Bible (Genesis 16:12) officially calls Ishmael (father of the Arab nation) "Human Beast" and they're indeed acting as such. After all, they have no human heart, as we see here, in their other gruesome acts, and in photos of their mothers taking pride of their children blown to pieces. If a bear that is let loose or a vicious dog attacks anyone, nobody will blame these animals for the murder. Whom would they put the blame on? Their owners. So whom do we have to put the blame on for all these terror acts? The cruel and corrupted leftist and the twisted minded left media that try to appease and assist these terrorists and give them moderate names: militants, separatist, rebels, activist, hostage takers, gunmen. It's about time President Bush and other right-wing leaders throughout the world wage war against the media terrorists supporters, get them off the air and ban their newspapers. Then they will be able to deal with the Muslim terrorists and wipe them off this planet too.
Posted by: Barm at September 5, 2004 02:52 AM
The only way to defeat animals such as these is to fight them on their own terms. Anything less they percieve as weakness and it emboldens them to more attacks. They have sunk to a new low with this attack because they deliberately targeted children, which no civilized person would do. A civilized society will always be a target to vermin such as these. To defeat them, we must shed our civilized concepts, and adopt theirs. No mercy can be shown to them. They are not deserving of trials, only execution. We can maintain our civilized attitudes and beliefs, but there are times when we will have to set them aside, and become as vicious as the enemy.Only then will we have a real chance of defeating those pigs. (yes, that is offensive to muslims, but I will make no apologies for it.)
Don't arrest the, or "detain" them. Slaughter them, before they can infect others.
Posted by: The Advocate at September 5, 2004 05:44 AM
Michelle--The official Russian Embassy website have been directing people who wish to make a donation to:
http://www.moscowhelp.org
I've spoken to others who have donated and I believe it is legitimate.
I'm heartbroken for the hurt and the griving. These swine have lost their right to any mercy since none of them were merciful. I hugged my kids tight, knowing that this can happen to them!
Posted by: Elizabeth at September 5, 2004 10:52 AM
Russia has sold technology to Iran and provided them with the expertise to acquire nuclear weapons. Russia has armed every Islamic despot to the teeth. Russia has backed every corrupt Islamic regime. Russia has opposed every action taken against any of the terrorist backers. Russia has refused to help the United States in the war against terrorists. I have always wondered why. And now this. I am so sorry for the victims of Beslan.
Posted by: Joseph Quick at September 5, 2004 11:46 AM
Trying to remain a 'neutral'these days is very hard.it is indeed tragic to see such images on our tv...in a world of technology the wars and suffering have been brought too close to home.i fear for our world as a whole...our species will be destroyed by ourselves...mindless acts of terrorism will only speed this process.for whatever reason..children..our next generation...should not be subjected to this hate or used as a tool of destruction.It will be in their eyes and thoughts of today that will shape how our world is run tomorrow.regards and hope to the families out there.
Posted by: R.Simpson at September 5, 2004 12:24 PM
What Elizabeth said. She hit it on the nose. That is the problem. As long as Russia and France continue to trade with rogue nations,and the media continue to give terrorists all the publicity they crave, we will have to deal with acts such as this. Aljezeera TV should not be able to get one minute of airtime in any of our cities or homes.
Posted by: Joe at September 5, 2004 01:45 PM
I'm sorry. The post I ment to refer to was Joseph Quick's. He nailed the problem.
Posted by: Joe at September 5, 2004 01:57 PM
Hello:
This is absolutely horrible how people can do something so evil to a good country. I am anAmerican and my girlfriend is Russian, I loveRussia more than my own country and seeing thismakes me extremely sad.
I want to help these families, if anyone cansend me where I can send donations to BeslanRussia, I would greatly appreciate it: oxforduniversity1@hotmail.com
Thanks
ScottGod Be With Russia
Posted by: Scott Marcotte at September 5, 2004 04:45 PM
To the Russian People:
Please accept my deepest sympathies for this horrendous and perfidious act of terrorism that literally stole a piece of the world’s heart. My heart felt support and prayers go out to both the grieving and every citizen of the Russian Federation and to all Russians throughout the world.
God Bless Russia!
Sincerely,
Ms. Oma Hamou
Posted by: Oma Hamou at September 5, 2004 09:49 PM
God Bless you sir, for covering this and letting the world know...thank you for the horrible pictures...the photo document of the agony these babies and people endured....babies...bloodied - their souls forever wounded.
Please please let us know how to contact the people there - how to send our love, our care, how to send word that we are bitterly angry at what happened to them. That American women care. Please sir, can you get our words and our help to the children and their mothers?
Posted by: Lisa at September 5, 2004 10:50 PM
Lisa, thank you for the kind words.
You can donate money to the victims or just send a note to the russian embassy russianembassy@mindspring.com expressing your condolences.
Posted by: Stan LS at September 5, 2004 11:21 PM
Islamic Terrorism. It's going to happen in every country once the muslim population exceeds 14%. First they start making demands, then they want to be separated from your laws and institue their sharia law. Then the burnings of churches and killings of Christians begin. There is something to learn from this atrocity. Islam is a religion from Satan.
Posted by: Forane at September 6, 2004 11:32 AM
How brave it was for MASKED GUNMEN holding children hostage. How brave it was that in the name of Allah they butcherd children. Thank Allah they had their AK-47's in order to protect themselves against children who were only just learning how to read and add numbers. I'm sure Mohammed would have butchered children in order to make a point. Allah, Allah, Allah. I'm sick of hearing that God damn name. It's a religion that professes peace and understanding and all I see are those professing this religion and NOT CONDEMING THE KILLING OF CHILDREN PUBLICALLY. Nothing (and I mean nothing) justifies the obliteration of children. I have yet to see senior Muslim officials say "We publically acknowledge, and condemn this barbaric act".
Perhaps there some who condemn it. But very few do. They keep their already stupid mouths shut and say nothing. Anyone who states "Well, BOTH SIDES are guilty..." Yeah, right. I've heard that utterly idiotic comment before. Both sides are guilty. Hey, pal, EVERYONE is guilty of something. I don't recall the type of butchering of children on that level that Moscow committed within the past 10 years. There's more slaguther in deepest Africa where MILLIONS die yearly. That sucks too. But my point is if you justify or try to explain the WHY of this event, then you justify the actions of these animals.
I suspect, that these "Chechen rebels" were in fact murderers, rapists and crimminals BEFORE they joined this looney army. These are men and women who committed acts of violence as a matter of habitual habit. This is prime ground for recruitment. Hire butchers and hide their actions behind the name of Allah (or any religion for that matter).
Posted by: Richard Rivera at September 6, 2004 12:52 PM
I don't think we can call Islam a religion of peace. Yet most Muslims are not dancing in the streets after this episode. Actually I believe that this event will cause most Muslims that may have hung in the balance of "Fanaticisim" to sway to the side of nominalism if not look to other paths for truth. I live in a Muslim country that formerly was part of the Soviet Union and know that 99.9 % of the people are horrified and ashamed that this was done in the name of Allah. I am a follower of Jesus and believe that He is the greatest example anyone could follow. And yet I have learned so much from my Muslim neighbors and workmates. I believe we need to be careful in these times to not allow hate to motivate our actions or our comments on this message board.
May God give us all move love than hate to deal with this world we live in.
Posted by: Dave in Central Asia at September 6, 2004 02:22 PM
Hello. I understand that the first reaction would be that Chechens are beasts and that we deserve to die and etc. However, we are as human as you are. We just do to you what you do unto us. Nevertheless, I personally and many Chechens I know strongly condemn this act. It has yet to be proven that they attackers (terrorists, hijackers or whatever you call them) were Chechens at all. The believe that we are terrorists and beasts will lead you to nowhere. You will only make us think that we really are terrorists and that we really should do what you say we are doing. At the moment, Chechens in Russia are treated as Jews in Germany of 1939. We don't deserve to lose 42,000 children in the (1994-present) war. You just see the small part of the terrible war that is going on in that land.You only see what "they" want you to see. So, please shut the fuck up and don't call my religions Satanic or my nation barbaric. If we are to call someone barbaric & satanic then it is Russia who has killed more Russians then we did. If you want to see the real face of terror then look into you own history. How you killed all American Indians and how you destroyed Hiroshima and Nagasaki. (I wonder how many children died there and who gives a flying fuck about that among you). So, Fuck you.I still condemn this terrorist act, because I those children didn't deserve it. Not a single child deserves it. But I know people who desrve it, and you know people who deserve it. But I don't think those people will get punished in this life. They protect their asses much more then they protect your children.
Good bye.
Posted by: Chechen at September 6, 2004 04:58 PM
Chenchen, The only response the world wants to hear from you is "I'm sorry". By attempting to explain or justify the Beslan massacre in ANY way, you simply make more enemies. Your fucked up death loving all or nothing religion is the main problem as I see it. And this was not part of any "war" either. Your thug "brothers and sisters" tortured these children right in front of the whole world - making them drink their own urin, bashing their skulls in while smiling and chanting "god is great", openning up with machineguns as they ran. You should choose now if you want anything of your culture to survive, as the only thing that would allow this is your purging these monsters from your midst.At this point though, even that may not be enough.
Posted by: Dean at September 6, 2004 06:37 PM
To all who are suffering from this tragedy, I will pray for your faAngie Broccolimilies with all my heart.
Posted by: angie broccoli at September 6, 2004 08:34 PM
Chechen,
It has yet to be proven that they attackers (terrorists, hijackers or whatever you call them) were Chechens at all.
Actually, if you look at my other post , you'll see that the captured terrorist has been identified as Nur-Pashi Kulaev from Nozhai Urt. Him and his brother (who's now dead) were supposedly Basayev's personal bodyguards.
In any case, let's pretend for a second that we have no proof that Chechens did this. Let's disregard the testimony of the hostages. Let's even assume that it was Mossad, or the russian intelligence or whatever the conspiracy theory that's closest to your heart...
What about Budenovsk? Basayev held the hospital hostage, he put pregnant women (in the maternity ward) in the windows as live shields. Over 120+ died that day. Do you still support him?After the first Chechen-Russian war, Chechnya had de facto independence, but Basayev (and Hattab) decided that that wasn't enough - they wanted Dagestan. So, in the August of 2000 they invaded, thus starting the second war. What do you think of that? Do you condemn Basayev for what he did and for the war that he has started?
Final question. What about Wahabbis in Chechnya? Doesn't it bother you that arabs are exporting their brand of Islam into Chechnya (Chechens are not traditionally wahabbis, right?) and play out their jihad on the Chechen land, while their families are safe at home in Jordan, Syria, Saudi Arabia, etc?
Posted by: Stan LS at September 6, 2004 10:08 PM
If Russia didn't traffic in arms to the middle east. Maybe they wouldn't reap what they sow. Why didn't they send troops to Iraq to help the coalition? Terrorism is a disease,a cancer, that has to be cut out. Or maybe radiated. I'm sorry the religion of Islam has been perverted for insanity's sake. Inshallah
Posted by: grant at September 6, 2004 10:25 PM
To the Chechen:
Jihad is a commandment in the Quran. Jews and Christians are called decendants of apes and pigs. I assume you know that homicide bombers are promised a place in heaven and that Islamic Law forbids Muslims to be ruled by anyone. On the contrary, it's Muslims who are to be the rulers and the "People of the Book" or "dhimmis" are given 3 choices: (1) convert to Islam, (2) pay the oppressive "jizya" tax, or (3) be killed.You can use the "F" word all you want but the actions of Muslim Jihadists are unjustifiable whether the victims of their atrocities are men, women or children. The jihadists are fortunate that westerners are in denial about the real objectives of Muslims in Chechniya, in Iraq, in Iran, in Palestine, in Saudi Arabia, in England, in France and in the US.It was interesting to see that while the human tragedy in Beslan was unfolding the news media here were concentrating on a hurricane in Florida the entire weekend and now their focus is the Presidential Election. Russia's 911 apparently has little news worthiness. This works to your advantage because if the American public really were exposed to the barbarism which occurred this weekend maybe it would finally be roused to defeat Jihadists once and for all. It seems that we have not learned our lesson from 911. Hopefully Russia will not follow our example.By the way, when you say "you only see what 'they' want you to see" who are you referring to? Not the Jews who were victims in 1939 I hope! In addition, I don't see how you could possibly sympathize with those Jews since the greatest anathema to Muslims is the "occupation" of Palestine by Jews - a direct violation of Sharia and the Quran.
Posted by: LenP at September 6, 2004 10:52 PM
To all commentators:
I would recommend "Onward Muslim Soldiers" and www.jihadwatch.org to all of you. The book and web site have opened my eyes to the true nature of Islam and Jihad. I learn more every day. It's important to know your enemy and to understand why he acts the way he does. Islam is dominated by clerics who in turn affect every aspect of Islamic life and belief. These clerics preach strict adherence to the Quran and Muslim teachings and that infidels are never to rule Muslims and tolerated at best under Muslim rule. Check it out and you'll never be confused again.
Posted by: LenP at September 6, 2004 11:02 PM
To Michelle:
"Any reason you left out Israel where the most innocents have been murdered - relatively, much more than 9/11??"
Sorry Michelle. There was no reason for leaving out Israel. I probably forgot to mention other countries and peoples terrorized by the jihadists. It's difficult to remember them all.
Israel is a particular obsession with jihadists because the Koran explicitly calls Jews decendants of monkeys and pigs and because Islamic law considers it anathema for any "non-believers" to rule over Muslims, let alone Jews. The greatest insult to Muslims is for Jews to dominate them in Palestine. They can never accept this arrangement. It's time for us to recognize this fundamental truth about Islam so we stop wasting time on peace negotiations. There's only one solution in Palestine - either the Jews are annihilated or the Muslims. Islamic law and teachings make this the only "final" solution.
Posted by: LenP at September 6, 2004 11:25 PM
I'm from Malaysia, and I am a christian. I thank God for my Muslim leaders for their understanding and tolerance towards other religons in the country. The Malay, Chinese, Indians and other minority race live in peace. I have no problem with my Muslim friends, in fact some of them are my best collugues. So, I really don't understand why some Muslims in other countries are so extreme and cruel.
Posted by: Robert Chn at September 7, 2004 01:24 AM
I like to add that my country is against all kind of violence, especially to children. If I were there, I will be among the Russian soldiers to end the suffering of the children. No one have the right to kill any children. Soldiers kill soldiers, not children.. whatever their cause are. Praying for the lost souls are one good idea now. Praying for all violence to stop is the job of all nations.
Posted by: Robert Chin at September 7, 2004 01:40 AM
RUssia is suffernig from a madman's policy decided by now our "closest ally" in the war against terror.
What else is left to say. Oh yes, disgusting complesancy.
Posted by: Avtomat at September 7, 2004 09:43 AM
I am from Ridgecrest, California. i just wanted to say that people worldwide see what has happened, and that our thoughts and prayers are with all of you. I cant understand a person or persons that do these violent acts, whatever message they try to get across is lost the second violence is brought in. They are worse then the people they feel have wronged them. I run a hub and we had 2 minutes of silence in the name of the innocent men, women, & children that died needlessly. if you know of a relief fund please email me the address so i can post it at my hub. Thank you and god bless
Posted by: Dennis McFann at September 7, 2004 06:33 PM
How you killed all American Indians and how you destroyed Hiroshima and Nagasaki.
You better thank your moon god that I don't have my finger on the red button. Fuck your attempt at moral relativism! I used to have some sympathy for your people, but since you have decided to ally yourselves with the devil (al-qaida), and have chosen to DELIBERATELY target innocent civilians, BABIES, you have totally *fucked* up your cause with the majority of the world who possibly could have helped you out with your war with Russia. So spare me the fucking "but they did it too" whine. I lost sympathy with you all a long time ago.
As long as you bring Nagasaki and Hiroshima up, you best learn from that. Keep pushing us, and you (and most of the Middle East) are going to be next.
BTW- May G-d have mercy on you, because I don't.
Posted by: ms heather at September 8, 2004 05:34 PM
I had planned to take the time to respond to Chechen's post, however, ms heather....you hit it right on the nose! I second that motion! And Chenchen, you can scream a tit for a tat all you want...NOTHING, NOTHING justifies the this sub-human act!! If anyone within my religion was a part of such an atrocity, I would stand up and denounce that faction -and my religion if necessary. Why are the true and honorable muslims not defending themselves, why do they not stand up and tell the world that this is not what their religion is all about? My sister's boyfriend is Muslim and he detests the reputation that these terrorists are engraving upon his religion, absolutely abhors such actions. I've asked him what Muslims have done to denounce these fanatics. He says that they have made futile attempts at allowing their voices to be heard in reflection of their true beliefs. My question is how and where? If this is the case, I haven't heard anything of it. Muslims, stand up and erase these festering wounds that these murderers are inflicting upon your society, it's time to stand up and let the world know where your hearts lie (I sincerely hope that they do not lie with these unearthly vermin, but since I have not yet heard from you or seen any action, I just do not know anymore, do something about that!). By obsequiously sitting back and quietly allowing these murderers to inflict such acts of pain and horror upon humanity in the name of Allah, you indicate that you are condoning such dispicable behavior. I do not believe that Allah would rejoice at such cowardly, inhumane acts of terrorism, as I've been told that that is not what the Muslim religion is all about, however, there are many others worldwide that do.
Posted by: Susie Q at September 8, 2004 08:38 PM
And---
The last I heard, MORON, American Indians are still alive. I know because they run gambling casinos close to where I live. Tax free.
Such persecution!
Posted by: ms heather at September 8, 2004 11:04 PM
Greetings I just have to say i'm shocked and horrified by this story(russian school standoff). Islam says does not promit the killing of childern and women. I'm truly sadden by this. The so-called muslims that did this are not muslim. Terrorism has no religion, race, color or creed just hate.
Posted by: Najma at September 9, 2004 06:51 AM
To Suzie Q.
I share your outrage at the act and at the lack of denunciation by the Muslim community. However, you need to accept one basic fact. Most Muslims either respect and support such acts of terrorism or are afraid of retaliation if they express public disapproval. Such is the nature of their "faith" that they either sympathize with jihadist who murder "infidels" or are terrorized themselves.
Go to www.jihadwatch.com and read Robert Spencer's "Onward Muslim Soldiers". The enemy does not see themselves as we do. They don't see themselves as criminals or monsters. They see themselves as liberators and martyrs - and NOTHING, even death will change how they view themselves. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it must be a duck. Once you accept this the rest becomes very easy to understand.
Posted by: Len P at September 9, 2004 09:04 PM
I am priviledged to have found this site. I have read every word posted. You have successfully created a new media genre. And now I say unto all the outraged American citizens: WAKE UP!!! IT IS TIME TO MOBILIZE.
I remember how i felt on 9/11/01. I remember the indescribable horror. There are no words in any language to describe my anguish over the terrorist attack in Beslan, Russia.The 3rd anniversary of the September 11 terrorist attack is upon us. Very close to this anniversary, our brothers and sisters in Russia are being attacked by terrorists. ATTACKED BY TERRORISTS THAT ARE SO HEINOUS, THEY TARGETED, STARVED, TERRORIZED AND MURDERED LITTLE CHILDREN IN THEIR ELEMENTARY SCHOOL! This act of terrorism is the most despicable, cowardly act TERRORISTS HAVE YET COMMITTED.There are actually some Americans who argue that terrorists have valid political points. HERES'S A NEWS FLASH: Individuals who employ mass homicide as a political tool HAVE NO VALIDITY. They shall not and will not be heard by civilized people.It's time for the American Public to unite with the world in solidarity against all forms of terrorism. American citizens don't want to sit on their front porches and worry. In order to give up complacency, every American needs to make a contribution to the war ON TERROR. Every American needs to make a SACRIFICE. Americans NEED A JOB!Many of you who have read and responded to this website have the resources to help generate a list of all COMPANIES OR COUNTRIES that conduct business with COUNTRIES that are known to harbor or financially back terrorism.With this list in hand, Americans can BOYCOTT until terrorist affiliated countries cough up/wipe out all terrorist organizations on the face of the earth.So, how do we get the American people to participate in the boycott? The same way America has successfully boycotted the French. E-mail, talk radio,the FOX News network and postings on websites like Logic and Sanity can make a big impact.
In America, the power of the little guy is in where he spends his money. Let's hit the bastards where it hurts.TERRORISTS: The MONSTERS who facilitate the mass pre-meditated murder of human beings.TERRORISTS: The MONSTERS who shoot children in the back to make a political point.TERRORISTS: The MONSTERS who attain power by perpetrating fear, death and suffering.It is time for America to get angry. Let our outrage sustain our resolve to stamp out the evil of terrorism. Help us start the most POWERFUL BOYCOTT IN HISTORY.THANK YOU FOR YOUR SWIFT RESPONSE.kriskadams153@comcast.net
Posted by: kris at September 10, 2004 11:28 PM
It is unhuman what those terrorist did to those children and adults. The survivours will never ever be the same again and to those who lost a loved one my heart is weeping for you. No one will understand the sadness & devistation but i will pray for you cause although we each and every ons has his or her own faith we have the same needs. From all the South-Africans we think of you in these moments of deep despair.. Naomi Sinden, South-Africa
Posted by: naomi sinden at September 13, 2004 07:17 AM
My elementary school has made the parents and children of #1 school in Beslam cards of sorrow and sympathy and we don't know who to send them to. Our children are our treasures no matter where in the world they are and we grieve for the children and their parents. We want them to know our hearts are broken for them and we must all fight terrorism wherever it is. The innocent suffer. Please send me an address at my e-mail so we can mail our cards. Thank you. We are not political people people just concerned for our fellow man.
Posted by: pat simmons at September 13, 2004 05:20 PM
I can't believe people could take so many innocent children hostage it is cruel and evil. I give my love to all the children and adults that were in that gymnasim and hope that no more children die i give my best of luck to all of you kristle
Posted by: kristle at September 13, 2004 09:21 PM
Expressions of sympathy for the victims of Beslan are of course appropriate and welcome. Sympathy, prayers and cards are compassionate expressions of love and concern. However, something needs to be done to stop the Muslim Jihadists from continuing to commit these acts over and over and cards, prayers and sympathy will not do that.
You may not be political, but you have to express your outrage and condemnation of such vicious atrocities. You have to support leaders who will not tolerate such acts. You have to tell them that YOU WANT THEM to put an end to this - whatever it takes.
If we present a united, unmistakable message to our leaders that they must end this barbarism, they will listen. If we send condolences and cards they will hear nothing. You must take a stance on this matter and let those with the power know where you stand. OTHERWISE, WHAT WILL CHANGE? It will only get worse.
Posted by: Len P at September 13, 2004 09:31 PM
 
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